From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id gCJ5OV25aGChnQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 20:52:13 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id GJFBM125aGCmNwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 18:52:13 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3105E24CA1 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 20:52:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34010 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSlNT-0005Kf-GB for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:52:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33818) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSlMs-0005KH-Hd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:51:34 -0400 Received: from relay-egress-host.us-east-2.a.mail.umich.edu ([13.59.128.245]:53672 helo=berserk-cyhyraeth.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSlMn-00031V-2o for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:51:34 -0400 Received: from petulant-alux.authn-relay.a.mail.umich.edu (ip-10-0-74-107.us-east-2.compute.internal [10.0.74.107]) by berserk-cyhyraeth.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu with ESMTPS id 6068B92F.BB16C.50358F20.284526; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:51:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=umich.edu; s=relay-2018-08-29; t=1617475887; bh=Yb7aLahRtJDo8agr+eoTl4hucWo1uqyNocW16JX9q/o=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=jeAdbPzHQLtga2Dl5uSioO82XReXO0FWCtm7wkMDyOngOWIEjkq+XBsxSDpOVcCDs 6p5vpQoxZ1pgIPYO19Iv8gHJC9qw57mDDu2kjZcBwxT3nHONH7gm2+zc3j4NVvBLyM 1DJUALO0ZzxpLZ/0v7MpCSs3e/XErr1kVPEY69d+r0tjaFSDeN/q3M6OTw4Yrg3h97 VNDhsFA1HWNmYrQrRWeWDQoLF3CpPN43hqY1q+e9o5G9ym9ViqKYm3bsgE/ELGqC6q XQ14sGT0VBemcwvkKVi6iDmFYIcJze+3ga9PzYwOEKmg9ejilU+hSymYWFjEmCd6FZ kydzu+Cup3YyQ== Received: from localhost (Mismatch [88.253.115.125]) by petulant-alux.authn-relay.a.mail.umich.edu with ESMTPSA id 6068B92E.2BEA7.2D4975E2.900850; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:51:27 -0400 From: Greg Minshall To: Russell Adams Subject: Re: Idea for handling timezones In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Apr 2021 17:00:42 +0200." <20210403150042.GK27597@maokai> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 27.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <701560.1617475882.1@apollo2.minshall.org> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:51:22 +0300 Message-ID: <701561.1617475882@apollo2.minshall.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=13.59.128.245; envelope-from=minshall@umich.edu; helo=berserk-cyhyraeth.relay-egress.a.mail.umich.edu X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617475933; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Yb7aLahRtJDo8agr+eoTl4hucWo1uqyNocW16JX9q/o=; b=ULwnmiCu5yh7dt6Z319SugvVMwNhd2+ZIr0LGWQHslAz/jN8jEhOzJ5qZA/EHvRPulF2zI jk0YvJ6jAnewUQvKCeSGnaCOCMRHYdi9xuCsv+hMafewsqBYH/sgKA/TpErrMUVrknJQeA h++ptyhB1Vi5dU2B11fRxA3aYtwFaF2msscd7qIKjuY734tmxrdjhLbu2Qt8ewx1qfCUIC 67L7W1Qieje+ESRwFP1YD7G+cNi6rzZeHy7jCQgiKjCM1reFDCwq3dEdb34u3DG29SIQon 258+WgD3kAXbhLzkSivOrkRHyDaU5+OBiDwbsqNSlxxmUsYIClz7ISAog2ty1g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617475933; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=cBaon/vRVoBupmpTTuYNvzXk99ET8UX0C77IFD8ENxwdQkQdVs0KJetXNE6/84vVwtnZM3 ka+wQD2pycn+5CqZwtVouKZkjmB25BhEmzsuB/iwY1UcIZ4yOmPbpNEpkX1GPXvqtTOCgt 8X9RGHIGJ26m0M3Bxyh1JN0EQH/m5Lw7koCjvNs9gvtvAhVc9IiawbJQR4o+K7PBItry70 EOYAqHpe5VOHhPU8OK0IIeKgtlJ8RP52spGGXbGbwTA+wtDLOrVVTTREYtrrw3q3Adx4wS piFViEOYWS2CsA8Y0FzCDKT4TAgetnhqr2i/5E/jXju21rpbUFHvw0lXRFkhQA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umich.edu header.s=relay-2018-08-29 header.b=jeAdbPzH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=umich.edu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=umich.edu header.s=relay-2018-08-29 header.b=jeAdbPzH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=umich.edu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3105E24CA1 X-Spam-Score: -3.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: N4i1C6Ox9Xzq Russell, > I would not suggest using UTC. I believe one of the reasons timestamps > didn't include TZ information was to keep them short and human > legible. Solutions with overlays to change a timestamp reduce the > usefulness of the plain text reading of Org (ie: less, grep, > etc). Storing timestamps with UTC is really a shortcut for the > computer, not the user. i wonder if this is perhaps another place where "org mode as simple text" conflicts with "org mode to solve difficult problems". that comes up from time to time (using dollar signs as delimiters for math is one recent example, another is "-" being "filled" into column one and taken as an item in a new list). it's a hard line to straddle. Greg