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From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: Daryl Manning <daryl@wakatara.com>,
	rjhorn@alum.mit.edu, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 08:16:46 +1100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <63c86454.170a0220.80970.652d@mx.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877cxk6oeu.fsf@localhost>

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> Does it sound good enough?
>>
>> No, I'm afraid not. How does org distinguish between meeting 1 and
>> meeting 2? IN meeting one, when the timezone transitions in/out of
>> daylight savings, nothing needs to change, but in meeting 2, when this
>> occurs, the meeting needs to be re-sechduled so that it keeps the same
>> offset relative to UTC.
>> Some mechanism is needed so that the user can
>> identify timestamps like those fo rmeeting 1 from those for meeting
>> 2. My idea was to have meeting 1 type timestamps without TZ info and
>> meeting 2 require fully qualified TZ info. However, while this would
>> probably work, I don't like it because it isn't explicit and would be
>> prone to errors.
>
> I still don't understand.
>
> In Org, you will have a default time zone that will be used to build the
> agenda.
>
> In meeting 1, you set the time zone to your local zone
> In meeting 2, you set the time zone to the time zone where the meeting
> is scheduled.
>
> The, both the meetings will be first converted to the default time zone
> and appear in your agenda adjusted as required.

The problem is with meeting 2 and the assumption there is a definitive
timezone for the meeting.

Consider this scenario. I have a meeting with two other people. We are
all in different timezone. What is the timezone of the meeting?

Thinking more about it, in this situation, you probably just need to set the meeting time to UTC
and that would work. However, we would want some easy way to set this
when creating the timestamp (and that could be all that is needed - a
good enhancement to the interface to make it easy to set the timezone)
and good control over how values are displayed in the agenda and org
files (i.e. I imagine you might want a default where they are all shown
in your local time, but similar to working with links, the ability to
display the 'raw' version for editing and other purposes).

As yuou mentioned in another thread, it is likely many of these
scenarios can be adequately managed with good TZ support. It will be
critical that we also have a good UI for setting/adding TZ
information. Then, as you pointed out elsewhere, we will just need good
documentation/tutorials as some of these workflows are not terribly
intuitive and people find this stuff confusing. 


  reply	other threads:[~2023-01-18 21:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 330+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-01-13  8:56 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Daryl Manning
2023-01-13 12:51 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14  6:27   ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-14 12:46     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14 11:18   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 11:26     ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-14 11:42       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15  5:11         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15 13:41           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 16:43             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-16 18:37               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 17:40                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-18  9:59                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:25                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 16:24                   ` [SOLUTION] " Jean Louis
2023-01-20 10:57         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 11:29           ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-20 11:36             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 15:10               ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-20 11:39             ` Fraga, Eric
2023-01-20 11:48               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-21 12:55                 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-21 13:41                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-21  9:21               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-21 10:14                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-22 11:49                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 22:51             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 13:03     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 13:22       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 19:10         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 11:21           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 11:30             ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-16 11:39               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 15:43                 ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-16 19:07                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 19:22                     ` Robert Horn
2023-01-16 19:41                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 20:47                         ` Robert Horn
2023-01-16 21:02                           ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 21:48                             ` Robert Horn
2023-01-17  8:53                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17  3:55                           ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-17  8:22                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17  9:15                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17  9:45                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18  9:15                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 11:43                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 12:02                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 21:16                                         ` Tim Cross [this message]
2023-01-19  5:29                                           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19  6:25                                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 14:17                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 15:55                                                 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21 13:10                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-21 16:23                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21 13:50                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-21 14:31                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-21 16:55                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19  7:23                                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 14:32                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 20:09                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 23:02                                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 23:51                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  0:24                                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20  3:46                                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  6:14                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27  6:06                                                             ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27  6:09                                                               ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-27  9:54                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-27 21:04                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-29  4:09                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-29  6:21                                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-29  6:46                                                                       ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-29 14:10                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 19:37                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31  0:53                                                                         ` Thomas S. Dye
     [not found]                                                                         ` <0597910b-9b01-3c0c-5d06-da171e0de4cd@gmx.at>
2023-01-31  6:08                                                                           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-29  6:31                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-30 20:36                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-30 20:38                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-29 20:26                                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-30 20:55                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-30 21:54                                                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31  7:04                                                                           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31  8:14                                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-31 13:02                                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-27 11:09                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-27 12:49                                                                 ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27 13:00                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-27 15:03                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-30 13:08                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-27 20:58                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-30 11:25                                                                 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 11:48                                                                   ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 12:19                                                                     ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-31 12:41                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
     [not found]                                                                         ` <CAL9aZksf8AGF=dXg0KAtLPyu1ATt1fLpvdsjN6GMCuK2KRQ56w@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-31 13:33                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 13:22                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 13:46                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 19:59                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 12:42                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:28                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:30                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 20:12                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  5:46                                                                           ` tomas
2023-02-01  7:29                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  7:52                                                                             ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01  8:32                                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  8:46                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01  9:38                                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 10:15                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:53                                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:36                                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 10:46                                                                                   ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-01 14:43                                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:45                                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:05                                                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  8:59                                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01  9:40                                                                                 ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Stefan Nobis
2023-02-01  9:45                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:38                                                                                 ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:50                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 15:48                                                                                   ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Stefan Nobis
2023-02-04  5:07                                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  9:06                                                                             ` Stefan Nobis
2023-02-01  9:20                                                                               ` tomas
2023-02-01  9:48                                                                                 ` Stefan Nobis
2023-10-29  1:04                                                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-06 15:34                                                                                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2023-02-06 17:03                                                                                     ` tomas
2023-02-07 21:08                                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-10-29  1:02                                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  7:00                                                                           ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-01  7:41                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 17:56                                                                     ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Fraga, Eric
2023-01-31 18:13                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 18:22                                                                         ` Fraga, Eric
2023-01-31 18:56                                                                     ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Greg Minshall
2023-02-01 12:48                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 12:52                                                                         ` tomas
2023-02-02  4:49                                                                           ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 20:41                                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31 23:50                                                                     ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-01 13:01                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 22:33                                                                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-04 22:49                                                                           ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-05 10:38                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 11:56                                                                     ` Christian Moe
2023-02-01 12:20                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
     [not found]                                                                         ` <87o7qdsf7h.fsf@christianmoe.com>
2023-02-01 13:26                                                                           ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)) Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 13:51                                                                             ` tomas
2023-02-01 21:57                                                                               ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-01 22:50                                                                                 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-02  9:01                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:22                                                                                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  7:45                                                                                   ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-02  8:33                                                                                     ` tomas
2023-02-02  9:37                                                                                       ` Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-04 15:44                                                                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  5:35                                                                                 ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info tomas
2023-02-02  8:56                                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:16                                                                             ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  8:34                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 13:59                                                                                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02 14:06                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:41                                                                         ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info " Jean Louis
2023-02-02  8:38                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 11:31                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-04 10:58                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 19:32                                                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05  9:14                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:46                                                                     ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:12                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  9:12                                                                         ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:20                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  9:27                                                                             ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:38                                                                         ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Stefan Nobis
2023-01-30 12:30                                                               ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 15:30                                                                 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-30 15:38                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 15:48                                                                     ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-20  4:03                                                   ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20  5:39                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  7:28                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20  8:11                                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 15:29                                                           ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 22:56                                                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  9:35                                                       ` Fraga, Eric
2023-01-20 10:48                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20  6:46                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20  7:34                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20  8:17                                                       ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 12:17                                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 16:09                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20 16:56                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 20:37                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21  0:14                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-21  0:37                                                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21  5:53                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-21 15:55                                                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-22 12:14                                                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-22 13:35                                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-22 14:09                                                                           ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 23:38                                                           ` Tim Cross
2023-01-21  6:21                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-21 21:29                                                               ` Tim Cross
2023-01-22  5:50                                                                 ` UTC or not UTC for timestamps in the past ([FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode) Max Nikulin
2023-01-22  6:17                                                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-22  8:35                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-22 16:54                                                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-23  6:28                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-23 16:04                                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-24  2:34                                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-24  2:44                                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-24  4:48                                                                                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-24 19:18                                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-24  9:34                                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-24 16:41                                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-26 15:37                                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-26 16:31                                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27 21:21                                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-22  7:48                                                                   ` Tim Cross
2023-01-24 17:09                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-24 19:20                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-24 20:50                                                                       ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 10:35                                           ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-19 17:57                                           ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-21 13:51                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 17:09                                   ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-17  8:45                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-19 16:56                             ` Robert Horn
2023-01-19 17:44                           ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-19 17:48                           ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-17 15:37                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18  9:29                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:11                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 21:31                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 10:40                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 17:28                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-17 19:49                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:21                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 16:20                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-20 16:27                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-19 17:33                   ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-16 20:25               ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17  9:07                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 15:24             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18  9:34               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:07                 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 10:43                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-19 14:37                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-15 20:43         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 11:25           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 15:19             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18  9:38               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16  5:01     ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 12:31       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 20:32         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-16 20:51           ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-17  9:12             ` [FR] Allow BC years in timestamps (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-13 19:06 ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Jean Louis
2023-01-14  7:12   ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14  9:32     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 11:08       ` Russell Adams
2023-01-14 11:35         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 12:00           ` Russell Adams
2023-01-14 12:16             ` [FR] Allow end date and max repeat count for timestamps with repeaters (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15  1:09               ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-15 13:45                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 23:49                   ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-15 23:53                     ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-16 13:01                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 12:19             ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 12:21               ` Russell Adams
2023-01-14 12:31                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 11:30       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 14:09         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 14:38           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 14:48             ` tomas
2023-01-14 15:05               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 16:50                 ` tomas
2023-01-14 17:06                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 17:13                     ` tomas
2023-01-15 19:54                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14 21:52                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15 13:52                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 14:34                         ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-15 20:03                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-15 19:52                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 13:11                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 20:56                   ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15 20:24                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-15  4:37                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15  5:03                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15 20:28                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 13:17                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 11:55       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14 13:50         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 16:50           ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14 20:30             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15  4:00               ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15  7:53                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15 19:26                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 13:20                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 14:00                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 13:08     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14 16:58       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14 19:43         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15  6:37           ` tomas
2023-01-15 14:07           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 20:43             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-16  5:20               ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 13:29                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 17:30                   ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 17:53                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 13:27               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 19:14           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16  4:20             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15 19:12         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14  5:14 ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-14  5:51   ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-14  6:40     ` tomas
2023-01-26 15:24     ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-26 16:08       ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] Fraga, Eric
2023-01-26 16:28         ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-26 23:40       ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Tom Gillespie
2023-01-30 10:13         ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ; ] " Greg Minshall
2023-01-30 13:05         ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] " Ihor Radchenko
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-01-15 19:16 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-28  6:26 Max Nikulin

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as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).