From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Erik Hetzner Subject: Re: Citations, continued Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2015 19:58:52 -0800 Message-ID: <54d04780.cb58460a.5243.2603@mx.google.com> References: <87vbjmn6wy.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87sieokx8e.fsf@berkeley.edu> Reply-To: Erik Hetzner Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Mon_Feb__2_19:58:51_2015-1" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51709) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YIUdi-0007jo-Pr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 22:59:04 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YIUdf-0003i1-HH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 22:59:02 -0500 Received: from mail-pa0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::234]:62340) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YIUdf-0003hb-4t for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 22:58:59 -0500 Received: by mail-pa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id kx10so90668419pab.11 for ; Mon, 02 Feb 2015 19:58:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87sieokx8e.fsf@berkeley.edu> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Richard Lawrence Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --Multipart_Mon_Feb__2_19:58:51_2015-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2 Feb 2015 at 10:02:41 PST, Richard Lawrence wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Here is the citation syntax proposal I have mentioned in a couple of > posts now. I have attached it as an Org document for better > readability, and also reproduced the text below. Let me know what you > think! Hi Richard, I am really, really glad to see people discussing citations in org-mode. But I have some concerns about this proposal. Before extensions are proposed to the pandoc format, I think it is important to understand how flexible the combination of pandoc, and what citeproc provides. I believe that pandoc can cover most of what you want. I also believe it would be a mistake to start from the idea of a pandoc-style citation syntax that deviates from pandoc. Better instead to start from what pandoc does now and find out what isn=E2=80=99t working = for org-mode users before extending pandoc, especially in ways that are not compatible with pandoc. And if extensions are proposed, it would be best to propose them on the pandoc-discuss mailing list. It would be wonderful for users if the syntax in pandoc-markdown and org-mode could stay aligned. For more info on the flexibility of pandoc+citeproc, see http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/README.html#citations and http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/demos.html. It is also important to distinguish what are features of the citeproc style (e.g. inline v. footnote citations) and what are determined by the author and thus should be present in the syntax (e.g. use or do not use a suffix or locator). =46rom the example document: 1. @item1 says blah. 2. @item1 [p. 30] says blah. 3. @item1 [p. 30, with suffix] says blah. 4. @item1 [-@item2 p. 30; see also @item3] says blah. 5. A citation group [see @item1 p. 34-35; also @item3 chap. 3]. 6. Another one [see @item1 p. 34-35]. 7. Citation with a suffix and locator [@item1 pp. 33, 35-37, and nowhere = else]. 8. A citation without locators [@item3]. 9. Citation with suffix only [@item1 and nowhere else]. 10. Like a citation without author: [-@item1], and now Doe with a locator = [-@item2 p. 44]. How this is rendered depends on the note style. In chicago author date it w= ill have: 1. Doe (2005) says blah. 2. Doe (2005, 30) says blah. 3. Doe (2005, 30, with suffix) says blah. 4. Doe (2005; 2006, 30; see also Doe and Roe 2007) says blah. 5. A citation group (see Doe 2005, 34=E2=80=9335; also Doe and Roe 2007, = chap. 3). 6. Another one (see Doe 2005, 34=E2=80=9335). 7. Citation with a suffix and locator (Doe 2005, 33, 35=E2=80=9337, and n= owhere else). 8. A citation without locators (Doe and Roe 2007). 9. Citation with suffix only (Doe 2005 and nowhere else). 10. Like a citation without author: (2005), and now Doe with a locator (20= 06, 44). with a bibliography, while in chicago fullnote bibliography everything will be in footnotes (this is easier to see in HTML: http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/demo/example24b.html) or attached. best, Erik --Multipart_Mon_Feb__2_19:58:51_2015-1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8; name="example24b.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIGh0bWwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBYSFRNTCAxLjAgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiIgImh0dHA6Ly93d3cudzMub3JnL1RSL3hodG1sMS9EVEQveGh0bWwxLXRyYW5zaXRpb25h bC5kdGQiPgo8aHRtbCB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMTk5OS94aHRtbCI+CjxoZWFk PgogIDxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBj aGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04IiAvPgogIDxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtU3R5bGUtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9jc3MiIC8+CiAgPG1ldGEgbmFtZT0iZ2VuZXJhdG9yIiBjb250ZW50PSJw YW5kb2MiIC8+CiAgPHRpdGxlPjwvdGl0bGU+CiAgPHN0eWxlIHR5cGU9InRleHQvY3NzIj5jb2Rl 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