* Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
@ 2015-03-06 13:03 Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:18 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:27 ` Rasmus
0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1]. The primer[2] uses the
term "in-text" to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
as "parenthetical" style.
I want to see an "off-the-shelf" csl style file, that uses
parenthetical style.
[1] https://www.zotero.org/styles
[2] http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/latest/primer.html#in-text-styles
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:03 Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 13:18 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:29 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 13:27 ` Rasmus
1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 06:33 PM, Vaidheeswaran C wrote:
> I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
> style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1]. The primer[2] uses the
> term "in-text" to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
> as "parenthetical" style.
>
> I want to see an "off-the-shelf" csl style file, that uses
> parenthetical style.
>
> [1] https://www.zotero.org/styles
> [2] http://docs.citationstyles.org/en/latest/primer.html#in-text-styles
When I say this, I am really asking for counter-example. If
parenthetical styles aren't hard to create and if they are absent from
style repo, I would consider it "conspicuous by absence". What
grounds would justify such a notable absence.
If an off-the-shelf csl file doesn't produce parenthetical styles, how
would a Org user go about producing parenthetical styles. As I said
before, I am approaching this whole thread from a "tools"
perspective.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:03 Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:18 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 13:27 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 13:48 ` Vaidheeswaran C
1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-03-06 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
> style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1]. The primer[2] uses the
> term "in-text" to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
> as "parenthetical" style.
Author-date a la biblatex have two primary calls: \texcite, e.g. A (YYYY)
and \parencite, e.g. (A YYYY). You can also cite just the author or just
the year.
Based on this¹ discussion, I'm not sure CSL supports both within a single
style file. Perhaps several CSL files could be combined to support this
workflow, e.g. via citeproc-java's command line program.
> I want to see an "off-the-shelf" csl style file, that uses
> parenthetical style.
Maybe this:
https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
—Rasmus
Footnotes:
¹ http://citationstyles.org/styles/, section "Suppress Author"
--
Warning: Everything saved will be lost
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:18 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 13:29 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-03-06 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> I am approaching this whole thread from a "tools" perspective.
https://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex
http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-chicago
http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa
http://www.ctan.org/pkg/natbib
http://www.ctan.org/pkg/chicago
http://www.ctan.org/pkg/harvard
--
Summon the Mothership!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:27 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-03-06 13:48 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:57 ` Rasmus
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 06:57 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I am trying to locate a Zotero csl file that produces parenthetical
>> style -- Author (Date) -- for citations[1]. The primer[2] uses the
>> term "in-text" to refer to what this mailing list has been designating
>> as "parenthetical" style.
>
> Author-date a la biblatex have two primary calls: \texcite, e.g. A (YYYY)
> and \parencite, e.g. (A YYYY). You can also cite just the author or just
> the year.
> Based on this¹ discussion, I'm not sure CSL supports both within a single
> style file. Perhaps several CSL files could be combined to support this
> workflow, e.g. via citeproc-java's command line program.
The point is such a CSL file should exist apriori. I am just asking
the participants to produce such a CSL file.
>> I want to see an "off-the-shelf" csl style file, that uses
>> parenthetical style.
Can someone else produce this CSL file?
> Maybe this:
>
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
I have looked at this style file and I have even written a CSL macro
for this file. Please tell me how would I create parenthetical styles
with this CSL file.
> ¹ http://citationstyles.org/styles/, section "Suppress Author"
The page says:
Suppress Author
With “author” and “author-date” styles, you might want to write
“as discussed by Doe (2002), … ” instead of “as previously
discussed (Doe, 2002)”.
While CSL styles only define complete citations, e.g. “(Doe,
2002)”, the word processor plugins of Zotero, Mendeley, and Papers
all allow you to suppress the author(s) in individual citations,
which would leave you with just “(2002)”. You then have to write
the author’s name by hand.
The question now is: Who types the author name. The style file
suppresses the author and it would mean the document author types it,
right?
So what toolchain are we looking at. How good we know these
toolchains to actually integrate Org-mode with it?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:29 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 06:59 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I am approaching this whole thread from a "tools" perspective.
>
> https://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-chicago
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/natbib
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/chicago
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/harvard
>
Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine? I sense a lot of enthusiasm
to use CSL styles. If biblatex works with CLS it would be wonderful.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:29 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 14:55 ` Rasmus
1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 06:59 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I am approaching this whole thread from a "tools" perspective.
>
> https://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-chicago
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/biblatex-apa
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/natbib
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/chicago
> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/harvard
>
Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine? I sense a lot of enthusiasm
to use CSL styles. If biblatex works with CSL it would be wonderful.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:48 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 13:57 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 15:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-03-06 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hi,
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>> Maybe this:
>>
>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
>
> I have looked at this style file and I have even written a CSL macro
> for this file. Please tell me how would I create parenthetical styles
> with this CSL file.
I haven't tested this as I'm using bibtex for my own work. But with
citeproc-java you should be able to do something like:
citeproc-java -b references.bib -s chicago-author-date -c Fowler_2010 Kisker_2012
To get something like (Fowler 2010; Kisker 2012).
> The question now is: Who types the author name. The style file
> suppresses the author and it would mean the document author types it,
> right?
My interpretation of the text is "if you want 'A (Y)' I will type '(Y)'
but you will have to type 'A' — manually(!)".
However, if you could combine styles you could just switch the '-s' argument
when calling citeproc-java (or a compatible tool).
> So what toolchain are we looking at. How good we know these
> toolchains to actually integrate Org-mode with it?
Last resort you could import all references as org-bibtex entries and use
some tool to format information from this. It's much nicer to rely on an
external tool for this, though.
—Rasmus
--
Me gusta la noche, me gustas tú
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 14:55 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 15:27 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Rasmus @ 2015-03-06 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine?
I don't think so.
> I sense a lot of enthusiasm to use CSL styles.
It has good support outside of LaTeX, e.g. Mendely and Zotero.
I'm not sure Bibtex is easily supported on these formats, maybe 'cause
it's a postprocessor, though e.g. tex4ht manages to produce citation in
xml-like documents. I believe latexml also has some support for bibtex in
xml-like documents. I don't know much about these cases.
—Rasmus
--
. . . The proofs are technical in nature and provides no real
understanding
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:57 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-03-06 15:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 18:21 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-06 15:32 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 7:37 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
I got the subject and also text wrong. (But I hope my intention was
clear.) I am really looking for EXISTING in-text CSL styles.
On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>> Maybe this:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
>>
>> I have looked at this style file and I have even written a CSL macro
>> for this file. Please tell me how would I create parenthetical styles
>> with this CSL file.
>
> I haven't tested this as I'm using bibtex for my own work. But with
> citeproc-java you should be able to do something like:
>
> citeproc-java -b references.bib -s chicago-author-date -c Fowler_2010 Kisker_2012
>
> To get something like (Fowler 2010; Kisker 2012).
>
>> The question now is: Who types the author name. The style file
>> suppresses the author and it would mean the document author types it,
>> right?
>
> My interpretation of the text is "if you want 'A (Y)' I will type '(Y)'
> but you will have to type 'A' — manually(!)".
>
> However, if you could combine styles you could just switch the '-s' argument
> when calling citeproc-java (or a compatible tool).
>
>> So what toolchain are we looking at. How good we know these
>> toolchains to actually integrate Org-mode with it?
>
> Last resort you could import all references as org-bibtex entries and use
> some tool to format information from this. It's much nicer to rely on an
> external tool for this, though.
>
> —Rasmus
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 14:55 ` Rasmus
@ 2015-03-06 15:27 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
I think the post-processor type tool is what would give the most
capabilities. The citations produced depends on the context. (For
example, is it a second refernce to an earlier occurrence etc. Is
this an "Ibid" stuff etc.) JabRef and Citeproc-java cannot do that.
My suggestion, people take A tool and evaluate it in terms of a
feature matrix.
On Friday 06 March 2015 08:25 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Does biblatex integrate with CSL engine?
>
> I don't think so.
>
>> I sense a lot of enthusiasm to use CSL styles.
>
> It has good support outside of LaTeX, e.g. Mendely and Zotero.
>
> I'm not sure Bibtex is easily supported on these formats, maybe 'cause
> it's a postprocessor, though e.g. tex4ht manages to produce citation in
> xml-like documents. I believe latexml also has some support for bibtex in
> xml-like documents. I don't know much about these cases.
>
> —Rasmus
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:57 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 15:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 15:32 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 7:37 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-06 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Last resort you could import all references as org-bibtex entries and use
> some tool to format information from this. It's much nicer to rely on an
> external tool for this, though.
We are talking about 100 options -- JabRef, Citeproc-java, org-bibtex,
biblatex -- all at the same time. Is it really difficult to fix one
toolset and knock that option once and for all. Too many options will
lead only to confusion and a delayed progress.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 15:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-06 18:21 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-07 6:41 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Richard Lawrence @ 2015-03-06 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Hi Vaidheeswaran,
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> I got the subject and also text wrong. (But I hope my intention was
> clear.) I am really looking for EXISTING in-text CSL styles.
Rasmus pointed you to a relevant style:
https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
I think you might be mixing up two different distinctions. A
"parenthetical style" like this one is distinguished from, say, a
numeric style (like the ACM styles, I think). This distinction between
"parenthetical" and numeric styles applies to the document as a whole.
This distinction is orthogonal to the distinction between whether
*individual citations* are parenthetical (like "(Auth 2000)") or in-text
(like "Auth (2000)").
So there is not really any such thing as an "in-text CSL style".
Rather, there are CSL styles that support both in-text and parenthetical
citations (which is most of them, I'd guess).
Best,
Richard
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 18:21 ` Richard Lawrence
@ 2015-03-07 6:41 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 16:48 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-07 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-07 6:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Richard Lawrence; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 11:51 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Vaidheeswaran,
>
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I got the subject and also text wrong. (But I hope my intention was
>> clear.) I am really looking for EXISTING in-text CSL styles.
>
> Rasmus pointed you to a relevant style:
>
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
>
> I think you might be mixing up two different distinctions. A
> "parenthetical style" like this one is distinguished from, say, a
> numeric style (like the ACM styles, I think). This distinction between
> "parenthetical" and numeric styles applies to the document as a whole.
>
> This distinction is orthogonal to the distinction between whether
> *individual citations* are parenthetical (like "(Auth 2000)") or in-text
> (like "Auth (2000)").
>
> So there is not really any such thing as an "in-text CSL style".
> Rather, there are CSL styles that support both in-text and parenthetical
> citations (which is most of them, I'd guess).
Your guess is just a guess. You haven't looked at chicago-author-date
style, have you?
You can prove yourself right by
(a) producing an "off-the-shelf" CSL file that uses BOTH "in-text" AND
"parenthetical" citations.
(b) producing a csl-based tool that ORG CAN INTERFACE WITH that
produces "in-text" AND "parenthetical" styles.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-06 13:57 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 15:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 15:32 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-07 7:37 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 17:32 ` Thomas S. Dye
2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-07 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rasmus; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> My interpretation of the text is "if you want 'A (Y)' I will type '(Y)'
> but you will have to type 'A' — manually(!)".
The details like these are important from design stand of view.
Do people who are lobbying for integration with CSL tools paying
attention to these details and ferreting out these in front of this
forum.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 6:41 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-07 16:48 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-07 18:22 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Richard Lawrence @ 2015-03-07 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> On Friday 06 March 2015 11:51 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>>
>> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I got the subject and also text wrong. (But I hope my intention was
>>> clear.) I am really looking for EXISTING in-text CSL styles.
>>
>> Rasmus pointed you to a relevant style:
>>
>> https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-author-date.csl
>> ...
>> So there is not really any such thing as an "in-text CSL style".
>> Rather, there are CSL styles that support both in-text and parenthetical
>> citations (which is most of them, I'd guess).
>
> Your guess is just a guess. You haven't looked at chicago-author-date
> style, have you?
Have I read the XML? No. But see below.
> You can prove yourself right by
>
> (a) producing an "off-the-shelf" CSL file that uses BOTH "in-text" AND
> "parenthetical" citations.
Here is a Pandoc document that demonstrates that chicago-author-date.csl
can process both types of citations:
#+BEGIN_QUOTE
---
references:
- id: Fenner2012a
title: One-click science marketing
author:
- family: Fenner
given: Martin
container-title: Nature Materials
volume: 11
URL: 'http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nmat3283'
DOI: 10.1038/nmat3283
issue: 4
publisher: Nature Publishing Group
page: 261-263
type: article-journal
issued:
- year: 2012
csl: /tmp/chicago-author-date.csl
---
One-click science marketing has recently been discussed. [@Fenner2012a]
As @Fenner2012a [p. 10] showed, there is indeed such a thing as
one-click science marketing.
# References
#+END_QUOTE
Processing that with
$ pandoc -F pandoc-citeproc -t plain $FILE
yields:
#+BEGIN_QUOTE
One-click science marketing has recently been discussed. (Fenner 2012)
As Fenner (2012, 10) showed, there is indeed such a thing as one-click
science marketing.
REFERENCES
Fenner, Martin. 2012. “One-Click Science Marketing.” _Nature Materials_
11 (4). Nature Publishing Group: 261–63. doi:10.1038/nmat3283.
#+END_QUOTE
As you can see, both types of citation render fine.
> (b) producing a csl-based tool that ORG CAN INTERFACE WITH that
> produces "in-text" AND "parenthetical" styles.
Actually, I am working on exactly that. I will post here when I've got
something to share.
Best,
Richard
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 6:41 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 16:48 ` Richard Lawrence
@ 2015-03-07 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-07 18:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-07 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: Richard Lawrence, emacs-orgmode
Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>> So there is not really any such thing as an "in-text CSL style".
>> Rather, there are CSL styles that support both in-text and parenthetical
>> citations (which is most of them, I'd guess).
>
> Your guess is just a guess. You haven't looked at chicago-author-date
> style, have you?
>
> You can prove yourself right by
>
> (a) producing an "off-the-shelf" CSL file that uses BOTH "in-text" AND
> "parenthetical" citations.
>
> (b) producing a csl-based tool that ORG CAN INTERFACE WITH that
> produces "in-text" AND "parenthetical" styles.
Could you explain how CSL returns citation information through the
various interfaces that have been developed? Several have been
mentioned previously, e.g., citeproc-js, zotxt, etc.
Do you know of something in their design that would make it difficult
(or impossible) for the Org mode developers to produce, e.g., "Foo (2015)"
instead of "(Foo 2015)"?
I'm asking because the developers who contribute their effort to Org
mode are, IMHO, extremely talented and experienced programmers. IIUC,
they are also busy with other projects (some of which hopefully make
them some money!), so I think it would help them if you could document
the problem you've identified.
All the best,
Tom
--
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 7:37 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-07 17:32 ` Thomas S. Dye
0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-07 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Rasmus
Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> On Friday 06 March 2015 07:27 PM, Rasmus wrote:
>> My interpretation of the text is "if you want 'A (Y)' I will type '(Y)'
>> but you will have to type 'A' — manually(!)".
>
> The details like these are important from design stand of view.
>
> Do people who are lobbying for integration with CSL tools paying
> attention to these details and ferreting out these in front of this
> forum.
Here I'd urge patience and attention to developments on the wip-cite
branch. In my experience mostly as an observer, very many details are
worked out at the code level, rather than "in front of this forum".
Indeed, that is one of the beauties of open-source software. It is
always possible to read the code and learn from it.
All the best,
Tom
--
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 16:48 ` Richard Lawrence
@ 2015-03-07 18:22 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-07 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Richard Lawrence; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Saturday 07 March 2015 10:18 PM, Richard Lawrence wrote:
>> (b) producing a csl-based tool that ORG CAN INTERFACE WITH that
>> > produces "in-text" AND "parenthetical" styles.
> Actually, I am working on exactly that. I will post here when I've got
> something to share.
That will be a big first step. I am only highlighting the gaps in
what has surfaced so far.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2015-03-07 18:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 19:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-07 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: Richard Lawrence, emacs-orgmode
> I'm asking because the developers who contribute their effort to Org
> mode are, IMHO, extremely talented and experienced programmers. IIUC,
> they are also busy with other projects (some of which hopefully make
> them some money!), so I think it would help them if you could document
> the problem you've identified.
I am also busy with other projects that make me some money.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 18:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-07 19:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
[not found] ` <54FB5E02.9080003@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-07 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: Richard Lawrence, emacs-orgmode
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>> I'm asking because the developers who contribute their effort to Org
>> mode are, IMHO, extremely talented and experienced programmers. IIUC,
>> they are also busy with other projects (some of which hopefully make
>> them some money!), so I think it would help them if you could document
>> the problem you've identified.
>
> I am also busy with other projects that make me some money.
Good news!
There is no time-frame on contributing documentation for this problem,
so feel free to get to it whenever the opportunity arises (unless
someone gets there first).
All the best,
Tom
--
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
[not found] ` <54FB5E02.9080003@gmail.com>
@ 2015-03-07 21:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-08 2:59 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-07 21:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: Org-mode
Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
(Bringing the conversation back on list.)
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> Richard understood the point I was making. When you have time,
> compare how you responded with how he responded. You can learn a
> thing or two from Richard.
I've learned many things from Richard!
I've also taken your suggestion to compare our responses to the doubts
you raised, which IIUC have now been resolved. Richard guided us
through the inquiry needed to resolve your doubts. In contrast, I tried
to guide you to the inquiry. Either way, I think the doubts would have
been resolved.
All the best,
Tom
--
T.S. Dye & Colleagues, Archaeologists
735 Bishop St, Suite 315, Honolulu, HI 96813
Tel: 808-529-0866, Fax: 808-529-0884
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-07 21:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2015-03-08 2:59 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-08 3:59 ` Thomas S. Dye
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-08 2:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: Org-mode
On Sunday 08 March 2015 03:01 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
>
> (Bringing the conversation back on list.)
>
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Richard understood the point I was making. When you have time,
>> compare how you responded with how he responded. You can learn a
>> thing or two from Richard.
>
> I've learned many things from Richard!
>
> I've also taken your suggestion to compare our responses to the doubts
> you raised, which IIUC have now been resolved. Richard guided us
> through the inquiry needed to resolve your doubts. In contrast, I tried
> to guide you to the inquiry. Either way, I think the doubts would have
> been resolved.
Richard in this message admitted that he is yet to familiarize himself
with CSL styles and that there are some loose ends that he hopes to
fill. (See
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00253.html)
My doubts stay and my questions (however pointed they may be) are on
topic.
> All the best,
> Tom
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-08 2:59 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-08 3:59 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-08 5:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-08 3:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: Org-mode
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sunday 08 March 2015 03:01 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>> Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
>>
>> (Bringing the conversation back on list.)
>>
>> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Richard understood the point I was making. When you have time,
>>> compare how you responded with how he responded. You can learn a
>>> thing or two from Richard.
>>
>> I've learned many things from Richard!
>>
>> I've also taken your suggestion to compare our responses to the doubts
>> you raised, which IIUC have now been resolved. Richard guided us
>> through the inquiry needed to resolve your doubts. In contrast, I tried
>> to guide you to the inquiry. Either way, I think the doubts would have
>> been resolved.
>
> Richard in this message admitted that he is yet to familiarize himself
> with CSL styles and that there are some loose ends that he hopes to
> fill. (See
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/msg00253.html)
>
> My doubts stay and my questions (however pointed they may be) are on
> topic.
Well, I agree that Richard hasn't yet implemented an Org mode interface
for an appropriate csl-based tool (your 2nd point), but I think we
should support him in this effort.
There is a lot of programming know-how on this list if he runs into
difficulties, so I'm hopeful he'll succeed even if one or more problems
prove hard for him.
Is your doubt about his eventual success founded in a general skepticism
about predicting the future (certainly warranted), or in some particular
knowledge about the difficulty of the task? If the latter, perhaps you
could help Richard avoid potential problems?
All the best,
Tom
--
T.S. Dye & Colleagues, Archaeologists
735 Bishop St, Suite 315, Honolulu, HI 96813
Tel: 808-529-0866, Fax: 808-529-0884
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-08 3:59 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2015-03-08 5:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-08 17:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-08 5:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: Org-mode
On Sunday 08 March 2015 09:29 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> Is your doubt about his eventual success founded in a general
> skepticism about predicting the future (certainly warranted),
> or in some particular knowledge about the difficulty of the task?
I have no such doubt or skepticism.
> If the latter, perhaps you could help Richard avoid potential
> problems?
I would replace "you" with "we".
What I had in my palm is out on the table. What have you in your
palms concerning "in text" and "parenthetical" styles in CSL.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-08 5:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-08 17:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-09 5:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-08 17:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: Org-mode
Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sunday 08 March 2015 09:29 AM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>
>> Is your doubt about his eventual success founded in a general
>> skepticism about predicting the future (certainly warranted),
>> or in some particular knowledge about the difficulty of the task?
>
> I have no such doubt or skepticism.
Which means you either believe he will succeed or believe he will fail.
Hopefully the former!
>> If the latter, perhaps you could help Richard avoid potential
>> problems?
>
> I would replace "you" with "we".
>
> What I had in my palm is out on the table. What have you in your
> palms concerning "in text" and "parenthetical" styles in CSL.
Thankfully, Richard demonstrated to his satisfaction that an
off-the-shelf CSL style could be made to handle this situation. If this
is the only potential problem you see, then this gives me hope that
Richard will succeed in implementing an Org mode interface for an
appropriate csl-based tool.
All the best,
Tom
--
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-08 17:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2015-03-09 5:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-09 6:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-09 5:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: Org-mode
On Sunday 08 March 2015 11:04 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> Thankfully, Richard demonstrated to his satisfaction that an
> off-the-shelf CSL style could be made to handle this situation. If this
> is the only potential problem you see, then this gives me hope that
> Richard will succeed in implementing an Org mode interface for an
> appropriate csl-based tool.
Do you share your good-will and words of encouragement equally to all
participants? Say something cheerful to me (about me).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-09 5:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
@ 2015-03-09 6:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-09 7:13 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2015-03-09 6:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vaidheeswaran C; +Cc: Org-mode
Aloha Vaidheeswaran C,
Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sunday 08 March 2015 11:04 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
>
>> Thankfully, Richard demonstrated to his satisfaction that an
>> off-the-shelf CSL style could be made to handle this situation. If this
>> is the only potential problem you see, then this gives me hope that
>> Richard will succeed in implementing an Org mode interface for an
>> appropriate csl-based tool.
>
> Do you share your good-will and words of encouragement equally to all
> participants? Say something cheerful to me (about me).
I'm happy to have you here and look forward to your contributions to Org
mode. I hope you enjoy the community as much as I do. I think Org mode
rocks.
All the best,
Tom
--
T.S. Dye & Colleagues, Archaeologists
735 Bishop St, Suite 315, Honolulu, HI 96813
Tel: 808-529-0866, Fax: 808-529-0884
http://www.tsdye.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations
2015-03-09 6:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2015-03-09 7:13 ` Vaidheeswaran C
0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Vaidheeswaran C @ 2015-03-09 7:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Thomas S. Dye; +Cc: Org-mode
On Monday 09 March 2015 12:04 PM, Thomas S. Dye wrote:
> I'm happy to have you here and look forward to your contributions to Org
> mode. I hope you enjoy the community as much as I do. I think Org mode
> rocks.
Thanks a lot.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-03-09 7:12 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2015-03-06 13:03 Zotero csl file that uses parenthetical style for citations Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:18 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:29 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:51 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 14:55 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 15:27 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:27 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 13:48 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 13:57 ` Rasmus
2015-03-06 15:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 18:21 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-07 6:41 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 16:48 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-07 18:22 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 17:25 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-07 18:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 19:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
[not found] ` <54FB5E02.9080003@gmail.com>
2015-03-07 21:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-08 2:59 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-08 3:59 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-08 5:49 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-08 17:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-09 5:21 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-09 6:34 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-09 7:13 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-06 15:32 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 7:37 ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-03-07 17:32 ` Thomas S. Dye
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