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From: Rainer M Krug <r.m.krug@gmail.com>
To: Eric Schulte <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Re: Test framework needed
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:15:38 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4D942A1A.1040707@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87wrjgq7n8.fsf@gmail.com>

Hash: SHA1

On 31/03/11 05:40, Eric Schulte wrote:
> Suvayu Ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:42:19 -0600
>> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This suite should actually be updated with effectively each patch
>>>> which introduces new features and run after each patch.
>>> Agreed, in a perfect world...
>>>> So is it only necessary to add meat to this framework?
>>> Yes, I believe the best way forward would be to add tests to the
>>> existing framework.
>> I have a possibly completely useless idea regarding "automatically"
>> checking regressions. As far I understand the problem now is its not
>> very feasible to do automated tests with what ever test suite we have
>> (or will have after the improvements) and see the exported results for
>> each patch, as at some step it involves human intervention (as in, was
>> the export good).

Good or not good is subjective - but *consistent* is not - and
consistency is important. Even if I do not like the default LaTeX output
from org, I can tweak it, but there is a problem if there are unexpected
changes in the export, which break my customizations or make it
difficult to recreate old documents, especially if these changes are not

> I would disagree that we need user interaction in the test suite.  There
> are already fully automated tests which (e.g., export to some backend
> like html or tex and then programatically check for properties of the
> exported results.

Exactly - the tests is R work this way: you have some code which is
executed, and then the resulting *output* is redirected into a file.
these results are then compared to a reference output, and if they are
not *identical* an error is raised.

Similar could be done in org: export to LaTeX should always result in
the same output, unless a change is intended (e.g. additional headers,
improvements, ...). So one could compare the resulting .tex file with a
reference .tex file for this test automatically, without user intervention.

> It is certainly likely that I am missing something, but I can't think of
> a situation or a feature of Org-mode which could not be tested under the
> current setup (mainly due to the fact that *every* user action in Emacs
> reduces to a series of function calls which could be programatically
> recreated).
>> So maybe we can have a directory on the Worg website (not part of the
>> Worg git repo) where every week or so the test suites will publish with
>> what ever the org-mode head is at the time for all the supported
>> formats. Then us "puny lisp illiterate" users can check up on it over
>> the course of the week and report back to the list if there is a
>> problem.
>> Since this way people can look at the export formats they are
>> interested in, none of the formats get treated like a step child
>> either. Would that be feasible? Or did I completely misunderstand the
>> problem at hand?
> I'd think that a better way for contributing to the test suite in a
> non-lisp manner would be to submit test cases, e.g. "this block of
> Org-mode text should export to this but sometimes instead exports to
> this", or "when I press this key sequence in this place in this org-mode
> text I expect x to happen to the text".

Correct - this is what we would, in addition to programmatic tests of
individual functions, need. I would actually say that the exports /
tangling / agendas / ... are the possibly the more important test cases,
as they 1) only show in a later stage of ones project, and 2) errors in
functions are easily detected by users and reported - and fizxed quite
quickly and finally 3) I guess an export / ... includes quite a lot of
functions, which are therefore tested as well (kind off...).

> We could even potentially leverage the existing Emacs macro system to
> build a *record* method so that users could semi-automatically record
> their actions allowing an interactive method of recording tests (or
> submitting a re-creatable bug report).  Or at least recording enough
> information so that someone with a little bit more elisp-fu could wrap
> the recorded actions into a unit test.

That would be brilliant. Like the error reporting:

atach the current buffer, record what was done and *the individual
configuration of org / emacs* and finally email / upload it to an
address, where it is automatically added to other submitted test cases,
might bring us a long way closer to an very useful test base. I am
actually ot aware of any other test framework, which let's "normal"
users submit test cases via email / internet - I think that would be a
very useful addition.

> Hope this is helpful -- Eric

Most definitely,



- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

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      reply	other threads:[~2011-03-31  7:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-03-30 13:01 Test framework needed Rainer M Krug
2011-03-30 13:46 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2011-03-30 13:56   ` Rainer M Krug
2011-03-30 14:11     ` Eric Abrahamsen
2011-03-30 14:22       ` Rainer M Krug
2011-03-30 14:26       ` MidLifeXis at PerlMonks
2011-03-30 14:18     ` Christian Egli
2011-03-30 14:30       ` Rainer M Krug
2011-03-30 15:13         ` Manuel Giraud
2011-03-30 20:14           ` Aankhen
2011-03-30 21:39             ` Eric Schulte
2011-03-30 21:42         ` Eric Schulte
2011-03-31  0:19           ` Suvayu Ali
2011-03-31  3:40             ` Eric Schulte
2011-03-31  7:15               ` Rainer M Krug [this message]

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