From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Robert Goldman Subject: Re: Quick note about subtree copy and paste Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:32:34 -0600 Message-ID: <4D2C6A02.6020806@sift.info> References: <4D25FA8E.4040308@sift.info> <83d3o3lepj.fsf@yahoo.it> Reply-To: rpgoldman@sift.info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=35110 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PcfH7-0001sl-Vl for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:32:43 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PcfH4-0007wC-Lq for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:32:41 -0500 Received: from mpls.sift.info ([75.146.46.193]:39084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PcfH4-0007vo-FW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:32:38 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83d3o3lepj.fsf@yahoo.it> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Giovanni Ridolfi Cc: Org Mode On 1/11/11 Jan 11 -8:03 AM, Giovanni Ridolfi wrote: > Robert Goldman writes: > >> I just did a copy and paste and noticed that when I did so the copied >> properties included the ID which, after being copied, meant that the >> unique identifier became a non-unique identifier. > Well, you shouldn't ! ;-) > > If you have to copy/paste a subtree, please... *clone* it. > > manual: Structure editing: > > `C-c C-x c' (`org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift') > > (then the :ID: is changed) > > Giovanni I get the point, but the current presentation is unnecessarily confusing. I was just /copying/ --- there was no time shifting involved, so when I look at them menu and see "copy" and "clone with time shift," it is "copy" that's what I naturally do. Actually, as I look at the manual I see: `C-c C-x c' (`org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift') Clone a subtree by making a number of sibling copies of it. You will be prompted for the number of copies to make, and you can also specify if any timestamps in the entry should be shifted. This can be useful, for example, to create a number of tasks related to a series of lectures to prepare. For more details, see the docstring of the command `org-clone-subtree-with-time-shift'. There's nothing there to even remotely suggest to me that this is going to Do The Right Thing about properties. It's all about dates and time-shifting. It may /happen/ to do the right thing with properties, but it sure doesn't /say/ that it will. The ID property is mentioned only in the interactive docstring, and pretty deeply down. I'd like to make a somewhat radical suggestion: If cloning is the primary option, and more safe than copy --- i.e., if copy is "this is the primitive operation that you should only do if you know what you are doing, because it might corrupt data," then I would argue that it's CLONE that should be bound to C-c C-x M-y --- the standard emacs keybinding I'm going to go to first --- and COPY should be demoted to the less-familiar alternative. This assumes that the answer to "Is there any case where I should do copy and /not/ prefer clone?" is "no." But I'm not sure that's the case. They clone doesn't do the same thing to the cut buffer as copy, does it? e.g., I don't use clone to make a copy of a subtree from file A into file B. Even more radical suggestion: So maybe the right answer is not to ask us to use clone all the time, but that COPY and PASTE should be fixed to Do The Right Thing with the ID property. Best, r