* spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
@ 2010-03-25 19:53 Michael Brand
2010-03-26 20:53 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-03-27 18:05 ` Samuel Wales
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Michael Brand @ 2010-03-25 19:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org Mode
Hi Carsten, hi all
Are there reasons to only narrow but not to widen columns?
I would like the behavior `fixed width' like
| year | boss | facility management assistant |
| | <30> | <30> |
|------+-------------------------------+--------------------------------|
| 2009 | Alice | Bob |
but with the current implementation get
| year | boss | facility management assistant |
| | <30> | <30> |
|------+-------+-------------------------------|
| 2009 | Alice | Bob |
which widens the column only if there is too less space left for the column
content.
As a comparison I can imagine four variants:
<..40> : `maximum width' (what <40> is today)
<30> : `fixed width'
<20..> : `minimum width' (no narrowing)
<20..40> : `width range' (minimum 20, up to 40, narrowing if even longer)
The most commonly used spreadsheet applications offer just one single variant
out of the above four (right?) and it is `fixed width'. My vote for org-table
would be the same: That it should support `fixed width' and that this is
sufficient as the only variant. What is the opinion of other users?
- Michael
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-25 19:53 spreadsheet: column width behavior(s) Michael Brand
@ 2010-03-26 20:53 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-03-27 13:11 ` Michael Brand
2010-03-27 18:05 ` Samuel Wales
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-03-26 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Brand; +Cc: Org Mode
On Mar 25, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Michael Brand wrote:
> Hi Carsten, hi all
>
> Are there reasons to only narrow but not to widen columns?
I think this is really the only thing that makes sense. Why would
you want it any wider, given the limited amount of screen real
estate we have here? I don't think it would be difficult to make
it behave the way you request, but I don't think I would ever
use widening fields. When would you want to use this?
- Carsten
>
> I would like the behavior `fixed width' like
>
> | year | boss | facility management
> assistant |
> | | <30> |
> <30> |
> |------+-------------------------------
> +--------------------------------|
> | 2009 | Alice |
> Bob |
>
> but with the current implementation get
>
> | year | boss | facility management assistant |
> | | <30> | <30> |
> |------+-------+-------------------------------|
> | 2009 | Alice | Bob |
>
> which widens the column only if there is too less space left for the
> column content.
>
> As a comparison I can imagine four variants:
> <..40> : `maximum width' (what <40> is today)
> <30> : `fixed width'
> <20..> : `minimum width' (no narrowing)
> <20..40> : `width range' (minimum 20, up to 40, narrowing if even
> longer)
>
> The most commonly used spreadsheet applications offer just one
> single variant out of the above four (right?) and it is `fixed
> width'. My vote for org-table would be the same: That it should
> support `fixed width' and that this is sufficient as the only
> variant. What is the opinion of other users?
>
> - Michael
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-26 20:53 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-03-27 13:11 ` Michael Brand
2010-03-27 15:15 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Michael Brand @ 2010-03-27 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Org Mode
>> Are there reasons to only narrow but not to widen columns?
>
> I think this is really the only thing that makes sense. Why would
> you want it any wider, given the limited amount of screen real
> estate we have here? I don't think it would be difficult to make
> it behave the way you request, but I don't think I would ever
> use widening fields. When would you want to use this?
I see, there _are_ reasons for `maximum width' (and other variants would be
only additional if ever).
The variant `fixed width' can be useful for the following timetable. Here it
is achieved with the field content
`<= widen'
in the last row.
several columns with the same width:
|-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
| | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri |
|-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
| 8:15 | Math | Compute=> | - | Math | Compute=> |
| 13:15 | - | Math | Compute=> | - | Math |
|-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
| / | <9> | <9> | <9> | <9> | <9> |
| / | <= => | <= => | <= => | <= => | <= => |
instead of:
|-------+------+--------------+--------------+------+--------------|
| | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri |
|-------+------+--------------+--------------+------+--------------|
| 8:15 | Math | Computer S=> | - | Math | Computer S=> |
| 13:15 | - | Math | Computer S=> | - | Math |
|-------+------+--------------+--------------+------+--------------|
| / | | <12> | <12> | | <12> |
or even:
| Mon | 8:15 | Math |
| Tue | 8:15 | Computer Science |
| Tue | 13:15 | Math |
| Wed | 13:15 | Computer Science |
| Thu | 8:15 | Math |
| Fri | 8:15 | Computer Science |
| Fri | 13:15 | Math |
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-27 13:11 ` Michael Brand
@ 2010-03-27 15:15 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-03-27 17:15 ` Michael Brand
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-03-27 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Brand; +Cc: Org Mode
On Mar 27, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Michael Brand wrote:
>>> Are there reasons to only narrow but not to widen columns?
>> I think this is really the only thing that makes sense. Why would
>> you want it any wider, given the limited amount of screen real
>> estate we have here? I don't think it would be difficult to make
>> it behave the way you request, but I don't think I would ever
>> use widening fields. When would you want to use this?
>
> I see, there _are_ reasons for `maximum width' (and other variants
> would be only additional if ever).
>
> The variant `fixed width' can be useful for the following timetable.
> Here it is achieved with the field content
> `<= widen'
> in the last row.
>
> several columns with the same width:
>
> |-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
> | | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri |
> |-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
> | 8:15 | Math | Compute=> | - | Math | Compute=> |
> | 13:15 | - | Math | Compute=> | - | Math |
> |-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------|
> | / | <9> | <9> | <9> | <9> | <9> |
> | / | <= => | <= => | <= => | <= => | <= => |
>
> instead of:
>
> |-------+------+--------------+--------------+------+--------------|
> | | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri |
> |-------+------+--------------+--------------+------+--------------|
> | 8:15 | Math | Computer S=> | - | Math | Computer S=> |
> | 13:15 | - | Math | Computer S=> | - | Math |
> |-------+------+--------------+--------------+------+--------------|
> | / | | <12> | <12> | | <12> |
>
> or even:
>
> | Mon | 8:15 | Math |
> | Tue | 8:15 | Computer Science |
> | Tue | 13:15 | Math |
> | Wed | 13:15 | Computer Science |
> | Thu | 8:15 | Math |
> | Fri | 8:15 | Computer Science |
> | Fri | 13:15 | Math |
Yes, thinking more about it, I do agree that a fixed width makes a lot
of sense as the application of <N>. It does now work like this.
Thanks!
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-27 15:15 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-03-27 17:15 ` Michael Brand
2010-03-27 17:27 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Michael Brand @ 2010-03-27 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Org Mode
> Yes, thinking more about it, I do agree that a fixed width makes a lot
> of sense as the application of <N>. It does now work like this.
Thank you for changing. And if someone wants `maximum width' I hope that it
will be implemented with the syntax <..N> as a _variant_ _additional_ to the
existing <N>.
Comparison of four variants (the last two rather useless apart from showing
the completeness of the syntax):
<30> : `fixed width' (the only variant implemented now)
<..40> : `maximum width' (as wide as necessary but max. 40)
<20..> : `minimum width' (as wide as necessary but min. 20)
<20..40> : `width range' (min. 20, then up to 40, narrow only if > 40)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-27 17:15 ` Michael Brand
@ 2010-03-27 17:27 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-03-27 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Brand; +Cc: Org Mode
On Mar 27, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Michael Brand wrote:
>> Yes, thinking more about it, I do agree that a fixed width makes a
>> lot of sense as the application of <N>. It does now work like this.
>
> Thank you for changing. And if someone wants `maximum width' I hope
> that it will be implemented with the syntax <..N> as a _variant_
> _additional_ to the existing <N>.
No, I am now convinced that this is not at all needed. Fixed is best
and just fine.
Thanks!
- Carsten
>
> Comparison of four variants (the last two rather useless apart from
> showing the completeness of the syntax):
> <30> : `fixed width' (the only variant implemented now)
> <..40> : `maximum width' (as wide as necessary but max. 40)
> <20..> : `minimum width' (as wide as necessary but min. 20)
> <20..40> : `width range' (min. 20, then up to 40, narrow only if >
> 40)
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-25 19:53 spreadsheet: column width behavior(s) Michael Brand
2010-03-26 20:53 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2010-03-27 18:05 ` Samuel Wales
2010-03-28 12:40 ` Carsten Dominik
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2010-03-27 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Brand; +Cc: Org Mode
Hi Michael,
Org tables already use up horizontal space with the | syntax. Some
people use large fonts or small displays.
Whatever solution is chosen, making it easy to make tables narrow will
be important.
Samuel
On 2010-03-25, Michael Brand <michael.brand@alumni.ethz.ch> wrote:
> Hi Carsten, hi all
>
> Are there reasons to only narrow but not to widen columns?
>
> I would like the behavior `fixed width' like
>
> | year | boss | facility management assistant |
> | | <30> | <30> |
> |------+-------------------------------+--------------------------------|
> | 2009 | Alice | Bob |
>
> but with the current implementation get
>
> | year | boss | facility management assistant |
> | | <30> | <30> |
> |------+-------+-------------------------------|
> | 2009 | Alice | Bob |
>
> which widens the column only if there is too less space left for the column
> content.
>
> As a comparison I can imagine four variants:
> <..40> : `maximum width' (what <40> is today)
> <30> : `fixed width'
> <20..> : `minimum width' (no narrowing)
> <20..40> : `width range' (minimum 20, up to 40, narrowing if even longer)
>
> The most commonly used spreadsheet applications offer just one single
> variant
> out of the above four (right?) and it is `fixed width'. My vote for
> org-table
> would be the same: That it should support `fixed width' and that this is
> sufficient as the only variant. What is the opinion of other users?
>
> - Michael
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
--
Q: How many CDC "scientists" does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: "You only think it's dark." [CDC has denied a deadly disease for 25 years]
==========
Retrovirus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: spreadsheet: column width behavior(s)
2010-03-27 18:05 ` Samuel Wales
@ 2010-03-28 12:40 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-03-28 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: Michael Brand, Org Mode
On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:05 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> Org tables already use up horizontal space with the | syntax. Some
> people use large fonts or small displays.
>
> Whatever solution is chosen, making it easy to make tables narrow will
> be important.
I think the new implementation (<> means fixed width N characters) does
still fulfill this request.
- Carsten
>
> Samuel
>
> On 2010-03-25, Michael Brand <michael.brand@alumni.ethz.ch> wrote:
>> Hi Carsten, hi all
>>
>> Are there reasons to only narrow but not to widen columns?
>>
>> I would like the behavior `fixed width' like
>>
>> | year | boss | facility management
>> assistant |
>> | | <30> |
>> <30> |
>> |------+-------------------------------
>> +--------------------------------|
>> | 2009 | Alice |
>> Bob |
>>
>> but with the current implementation get
>>
>> | year | boss | facility management assistant |
>> | | <30> | <30> |
>> |------+-------+-------------------------------|
>> | 2009 | Alice | Bob |
>>
>> which widens the column only if there is too less space left for
>> the column
>> content.
>>
>> As a comparison I can imagine four variants:
>> <..40> : `maximum width' (what <40> is today)
>> <30> : `fixed width'
>> <20..> : `minimum width' (no narrowing)
>> <20..40> : `width range' (minimum 20, up to 40, narrowing if even
>> longer)
>>
>> The most commonly used spreadsheet applications offer just one single
>> variant
>> out of the above four (right?) and it is `fixed width'. My vote for
>> org-table
>> would be the same: That it should support `fixed width' and that
>> this is
>> sufficient as the only variant. What is the opinion of other users?
>>
>> - Michael
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
>
> --
> Q: How many CDC "scientists" does it take to change a lightbulb?
> A: "You only think it's dark." [CDC has denied a deadly disease for
> 25 years]
> ==========
> Retrovirus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-03-28 12:40 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2010-03-25 19:53 spreadsheet: column width behavior(s) Michael Brand
2010-03-26 20:53 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-03-27 13:11 ` Michael Brand
2010-03-27 15:15 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-03-27 17:15 ` Michael Brand
2010-03-27 17:27 ` Carsten Dominik
2010-03-27 18:05 ` Samuel Wales
2010-03-28 12:40 ` Carsten Dominik
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