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* @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
@ 2022-07-08 11:17 Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-08 12:05 ` Bruce D'Arcus
  2022-07-17  8:26 ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Alain.Cochard @ 2022-07-08 11:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode List

Hello.

As I do not know which of these alternatives 

   - it is normal, this feature should not be there,
   - it is an oversight,
   - this feature is not implemented yet,
   - it does not work for me for some reason,
   - other,

is valid, I decided to report this minor issue.

Specifically, I followed the following (found on
https://blog.tecosaur.com/tmio/2021-07-31-citations.html, linked from
https://orgmode.org/Changes.html):
 
   So, to summarise, all one needs to get started is:
   #+bibliography: references.bib
   [cite:@key]
   #+print_bibliography:
   That’s it!

My .bib file is 

   @string{jgr="J. Geophys. Res."}
   @ARTICLE{chouet88,
   journal=jgr,
   author={Chouet, B.}, title={Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...]},
   year={1988}, volume={93}, number={B5}, pages={4375-4400}

Of course I use [cite:@chouet88].

Then I do 'C-c e l o' and I get (copied from the resulting .pdf):

   Contents
   (Chouet, B., 1988)
   Chouet, B. (1988). Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...], jgr.

Regards,
a.

-- 
EOST (École et Observatoire des Sciences de la Terre) 
ITE (Institut Terre & Environnement) | alain.cochard@unistra.fr
5 rue René Descartes   [bureau 106]  | Phone: +33 (0)3 68 85 50 44 
F-67084 Strasbourg Cedex, France     | [ slot available for rent ]



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-08 11:17 @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Alain.Cochard
@ 2022-07-08 12:05 ` Bruce D'Arcus
  2022-07-09  3:55   ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-09  6:10   ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib] Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-17  8:26 ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Ihor Radchenko
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Bruce D'Arcus @ 2022-07-08 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alain.cochard; +Cc: Org Mode List

On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 7:25 AM <Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr> wrote:

> As I do not know which of these alternatives
>
>    - it is normal, this feature should not be there,
>    - it is an oversight,
>    - this feature is not implemented yet,

I believe this is the answer, and it's arguable (I have no opinion,
and could see reasonable arguments either way) whether a "basic"
processor should support it?

The parsebib library, which most third party packages use (for
org-cite, there's my citar), does support this feature.

>    - it does not work for me for some reason,
>    - other,

Bruce


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-08 12:05 ` Bruce D'Arcus
@ 2022-07-09  3:55   ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-09  8:40     ` András Simonyi
  2022-07-09  6:10   ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib] Alain.Cochard
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-07-09  3:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bruce D'Arcus; +Cc: alain.cochard, Org Mode List

"Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 7:25 AM <Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr> wrote:
>
>> As I do not know which of these alternatives
>>
>>    - it is normal, this feature should not be there,
>>    - it is an oversight,
>>    - this feature is not implemented yet,
>
> I believe this is the answer, and it's arguable (I have no opinion,
> and could see reasonable arguments either way) whether a "basic"
> processor should support it?
>
> The parsebib library, which most third party packages use (for
> org-cite, there's my citar), does support this feature.

oc-basic.el is relying on built-in bibtex.el. AFAIK, bibtex.el does not
support @string abbreviations.

The problem with parsebib is that it does not even have license
(I do not see any in https://github.com/joostkremers/parsebib). If
parsebib were a part of Emacs core or at least a part of ELPA, we would
also be able to use it in Org core.

Or one could extend bibtex.el with abbreviation support.

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-08 12:05 ` Bruce D'Arcus
  2022-07-09  3:55   ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-09  6:10   ` Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-09 12:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
                       ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Alain.Cochard @ 2022-07-09  6:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bruce D'Arcus; +Cc: alain.cochard, Org Mode List

Bruce D'Arcus writes on Fri  8 Jul 2022 08:05:
 > On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 7:25 AM <Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr> wrote:
 > 
 > > As I do not know which of these alternatives
 > >
 > >    - it is normal, this feature should not be there,
 > >    - it is an oversight,
 > >    - this feature is not implemented yet,
 > 
 > I believe this is the answer, and it's arguable (I have no opinion,
 > and could see reasonable arguments either way) whether a "basic"
 > processor should support it?

Is someone using natbib/bibtex (say) expected to never ever use
'basic'? (I don't know.) If so, perhaps there is indeed no need to
implement the feature.  Otherwise, it seems to me that not
implementing it amounts to having to give up on @string altogether.

 > The parsebib library, which most third party packages use (for
 > org-cite, there's my citar), does support this feature.

Thank you.  I guess that if it would have be mentioned I would have
silently accepted it.

Some context: although I have been using org-mode for more than 5
years, I had always delayed the "bibliography step", namely, learn
org-ref.  But wait, now there is org-cite, so which one should I
learn?  Spending days (literally) reading a lot of material, trying to
digest the terminology (it is a real mess).  OK, org-cite seems to be
the future, so I'll give it a try.  First elementary test -> failure
-- so frustrating.  I conclude that the project is not mature enough
(at least the documentation), and I give up.  It is only because I
could not have org-ref work either that I came back to org-cite.

I take the opportunity to say that I think that the simple
self-contained example

   #+bibliography: references.bib
   [cite:@key]
   #+print_bibliography:

should be part of the manual, especially since the
2021-07-31-citations post does not seem to be referred to in the
manual any more (I have org version 9.5.4).

Frankly, the manual was cryptic to me at the beginning (and still is,
to a significant extent -- granted, I am a very slow learner), and I
don't know how much time it would have taken me to come up with this
simple example.

Similar minimal examples with natbib, biblatex, etc., together with
the required instructions in the emacs init file, would also be most
welcome (I spent a day to have one work for me with natbib...  I
include it below, in case it could be useful to someone else; the
examples I found on this mailing list did not work for me).  I
understand that it is not possible to provide an example for each
possible combination of the parameters, but a few ones are perhaps a
reasonable wish?  Not only a working example helps to get started, but
it also helps a lot to understand the documentation in return.
Furthermore, it gets much easier to ask for help: "I did this (or a
slight modification of it), it does not work, please help".

Many thanks and congratulations for org-cite.

Regards.

---------------------------------
my setup for org-cite with natbib
---------------------------------

org file:
---------
#+cite_export: natbib plainnat
#+bibliography: cite.bib
[cite:@chouet88] 
#+print_bibliography:

NB: 'plainnat' above refers to file
/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/bibtex/bst/natbib/plainnat.bst, which,
on my Fedora 34 GNU/Linux distribution, is part of the
texlive-natbib-svn20668.8.31b-39.fc34.noarch rpm package.

cite.bib file:
--------------
@string{jgr="J. Geophys. Res."}
@ARTICLE{chouet88,
journal=jgr,
author={Chouet, B.}, title={Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...]},
year={1988}, volume={93}, number={B5}, pages={4375-4400}
}

emacs init file:
----------------
(require 'oc-natbib)
(setq org-latex-pdf-process '("pdflatex -interaction nonstopmode
-output-directory %o %f" "bibtex %b" "pdflatex -interaction
nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f" "pdflatex -interaction
nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f" ) )

NB: It does not work for me without '-interaction nonstopmode' (I have
emacs 27.2 and org 9.5.4.).

Then 'C-c C-e l o' from the org file to display the pdf, which shows:

Contents
[Chouet, 1988]
References
B. Chouet. Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...]. J. Geophys. Res.,
93(B5): 4375–4400, 1988.

-- 
EOST (École et Observatoire des Sciences de la Terre) 
ITE (Institut Terre & Environnement) | alain.cochard@unistra.fr
5 rue René Descartes   [bureau 106]  | Phone: +33 (0)3 68 85 50 44 
F-67084 Strasbourg Cedex, France     | [ slot available for rent ]



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-09  3:55   ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-09  8:40     ` András Simonyi
  2022-07-10  9:22       ` Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite) Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: András Simonyi @ 2022-07-09  8:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: Bruce D'Arcus, alain.cochard, Org Mode List

Dear All,

On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 at 05:55, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> The problem with parsebib is that it does not even have license
> (I do not see any in https://github.com/joostkremers/parsebib). If
> parsebib were a part of Emacs core or at least a part of ELPA, we would
> also be able to use it in Org core.

looking into the source code (parsebib.el), the library seems to be
under a BSD-type license.

best wishes,
András


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-09  6:10   ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib] Alain.Cochard
@ 2022-07-09 12:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
  2022-07-10  7:17     ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-13  4:52     ` Alain.Cochard
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Bruce D'Arcus @ 2022-07-09 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alain.cochard; +Cc: Org Mode List

On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 2:10 AM <Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr> wrote:

> I take the opportunity to say that I think that the simple
> self-contained example
>
>    #+bibliography: references.bib
>    [cite:@key]
>    #+print_bibliography:
>
> should be part of the manual, especially since the
> 2021-07-31-citations post does not seem to be referred to in the
> manual any more (I have org version 9.5.4).

The terseness of this section of the manual is a known problem.

I'll try to find time to do a patch to include your suggestions, which
make sense.

Bruce


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-09  6:10   ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib] Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-09 12:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
@ 2022-07-10  7:17     ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-12 11:14       ` András Simonyi
  2022-07-13  4:52     ` Alain.Cochard
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-07-10  7:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alain.Cochard; +Cc: Bruce D'Arcus, Org Mode List

Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes:

> Is someone using natbib/bibtex (say) expected to never ever use
> 'basic'? (I don't know.) If so, perhaps there is indeed no need to
> implement the feature.  Otherwise, it seems to me that not
> implementing it amounts to having to give up on @string altogether.

AFAIU, oc-natbib/oc-bibtex also do not support @string because they also
rely upon the built-in Emacs parser for bib files.

I have submitted a bug report to Emacs devs [1]. Hopefully it can be
fixed on Emacs side without a need to switch the bibtex parser.

[1] https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=56475

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite)
  2022-07-09  8:40     ` András Simonyi
@ 2022-07-10  9:22       ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-10 19:37         ` Joost Kremers
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-07-10  9:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: András Simonyi; +Cc: Bruce D'Arcus, alain.cochard, Org Mode List

András Simonyi <andras.simonyi@gmail.com> writes:

>> The problem with parsebib is that it does not even have license
>> (I do not see any in https://github.com/joostkremers/parsebib). If
>> parsebib were a part of Emacs core or at least a part of ELPA, we would
>> also be able to use it in Org core.
>
> looking into the source code (parsebib.el), the library seems to be
> under a BSD-type license.

Then, I am wondering if parsebib can be added to ELPA or at least
non-GNU ELPA. The same can be said for all other dependencies of
citeproc.el and for citeproc itself.

Ideally, users should not need to add non-default package repos just to
add support for CSL in Org.

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite)
  2022-07-10  9:22       ` Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite) Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-10 19:37         ` Joost Kremers
  2022-07-11  2:06           ` Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Joost Kremers @ 2022-07-10 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko
  Cc: András Simonyi, Bruce D'Arcus, alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode


On Sun, Jul 10 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> András Simonyi <andras.simonyi@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> The problem with parsebib is that it does not even have license
>>> (I do not see any in https://github.com/joostkremers/parsebib). If
>>> parsebib were a part of Emacs core or at least a part of ELPA, we would
>>> also be able to use it in Org core.
>>
>> looking into the source code (parsebib.el), the library seems to be
>> under a BSD-type license.

Yes, it is. It's a single file and the license is at the top. I can add a
separate license file if that's necessary.

> Then, I am wondering if parsebib can be added to ELPA or at least
> non-GNU ELPA. The same can be said for all other dependencies of
> citeproc.el and for citeproc itself.

I'd have no problem if it were added to non-GNU ELPA. GNU ELPA is a little
difficult because I don't have a copyright assignment on file. (It's proven a
little difficult to get someone in the company to sign the corporate waiver...)



-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite)
  2022-07-10 19:37         ` Joost Kremers
@ 2022-07-11  2:06           ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-12 10:23             ` András Simonyi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-07-11  2:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joost Kremers
  Cc: András Simonyi, Bruce D'Arcus, alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode

Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm> writes:

>>> looking into the source code (parsebib.el), the library seems to be
>>> under a BSD-type license.
>
> Yes, it is. It's a single file and the license is at the top. I can add a
> separate license file if that's necessary.

It is not required. Just a bit confusing - Github is only able to detect
license info when you have a dedicated license file. Hence, Github
currently treats your repo as unlicensed - no license info is listed in
the "Info" sidebar.

>> Then, I am wondering if parsebib can be added to ELPA or at least
>> non-GNU ELPA. The same can be said for all other dependencies of
>> citeproc.el and for citeproc itself.
>
> I'd have no problem if it were added to non-GNU ELPA. GNU ELPA is a little
> difficult because I don't have a copyright assignment on file. (It's proven a
> little difficult to get someone in the company to sign the corporate waiver...)

non-GNU ELPA is also fine. The idea is to avoid asking users to add
extra package repo configuration. It will be the best if M-x
package-install just works. ELPA and non-GNU ELPA should be available by
default in newer Emacs versions.

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite)
  2022-07-11  2:06           ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-12 10:23             ` András Simonyi
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: András Simonyi @ 2022-07-12 10:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko
  Cc: Joost Kremers, Bruce D'Arcus, alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode

Dear All,

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 at 04:05, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Then, I am wondering if parsebib can be added to ELPA or at least
> >> non-GNU ELPA. The same can be said for all other dependencies of
> >> citeproc.el and for citeproc itself.

> non-GNU ELPA is also fine. The idea is to avoid asking users to add
> extra package repo configuration.

Since the dash library, which is heavily used in citeproc-el, has been
added to GNU ELPA, if parsebib also becomes available in non-GNU ELPA
then I don't so any serious problem with adding citeproc-el to the
latter as well -- the use of the "s" string processing library would
still need to be eliminated but this would require only relatively
minor changes.

best wishes,
András


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-10  7:17     ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-12 11:14       ` András Simonyi
  2022-07-12 11:36         ` John Kitchin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: András Simonyi @ 2022-07-12 11:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: Alain.Cochard, Bruce D'Arcus, Org Mode List

Dear All,

On Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 09:17, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:

> AFAIU, oc-natbib/oc-bibtex also do not support @string because they also
> rely upon the built-in Emacs parser for bib files.

> I have submitted a bug report to Emacs devs [1]. Hopefully it can be
> fixed on Emacs side without a need to switch the bibtex parser.

Thanks Ihor for submitting the bug report, I think it will be useful
for Emacs to contain a built-in bibtex parser with proper @string
support.
OTOH, a small correction:  as far as I can see, oc-natbib and
oc-bibtex (and oc-biblatex) do not parse bib(la)tex files at all,
since they simply transform Org citation and bibliography commands to
their LaTeX equivalent.

best wishes,
András


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-12 11:14       ` András Simonyi
@ 2022-07-12 11:36         ` John Kitchin
  2022-07-12 11:48           ` András Simonyi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: John Kitchin @ 2022-07-12 11:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: András Simonyi
  Cc: Alain.Cochard, Bruce D'Arcus, Ihor Radchenko, Org Mode List

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1251 bytes --]

Maybe it is still needed so the tooltip looks nice.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 7:15 AM András Simonyi <andras.simonyi@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2022 at 09:17, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > AFAIU, oc-natbib/oc-bibtex also do not support @string because they also
> > rely upon the built-in Emacs parser for bib files.
>
> > I have submitted a bug report to Emacs devs [1]. Hopefully it can be
> > fixed on Emacs side without a need to switch the bibtex parser.
>
> Thanks Ihor for submitting the bug report, I think it will be useful
> for Emacs to contain a built-in bibtex parser with proper @string
> support.
> OTOH, a small correction:  as far as I can see, oc-natbib and
> oc-bibtex (and oc-biblatex) do not parse bib(la)tex files at all,
> since they simply transform Org citation and bibliography commands to
> their LaTeX equivalent.
>
> best wishes,
> András
>
> --
John

-----------------------------------
Professor John Kitchin (he/him/his)
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
https://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
https://pointbreezepubs.gumroad.com/ pycse bookstore

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2020 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-12 11:36         ` John Kitchin
@ 2022-07-12 11:48           ` András Simonyi
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: András Simonyi @ 2022-07-12 11:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: John Kitchin
  Cc: Alain.Cochard, Bruce D'Arcus, Ihor Radchenko, Org Mode List

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 at 13:36, John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

> Maybe it is still needed so the tooltip looks nice.

currently, oc-basic.el contains the single activation (fontification)
processor (called "basic") shipped with Org, the other oc-*.el files
provide only export processors.

best wishes,

András

>> OTOH, a small correction:  as far as I can see, oc-natbib and
>> oc-bibtex (and oc-biblatex) do not parse bib(la)tex files at all,
>> since they simply transform Org citation and bibliography commands to
>> their LaTeX equivalent.
>>
>> best wishes,
>> András
>>
> --
> John
>
> -----------------------------------
> Professor John Kitchin (he/him/his)
> Doherty Hall A207F
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> Carnegie Mellon University
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> 412-268-7803
> @johnkitchin
> https://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
> https://pointbreezepubs.gumroad.com/ pycse bookstore
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-09  6:10   ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib] Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-09 12:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
  2022-07-10  7:17     ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-13  4:52     ` Alain.Cochard
  2022-08-07 14:08       ` Ihor Radchenko
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Alain.Cochard @ 2022-07-13  4:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alain.cochard; +Cc: Bruce D'Arcus, Org Mode List

Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes on Sat  9 Jul 2022 08:10:

 > the examples I found on this mailing list did not work for me).

I think I now understand why this was so: because latexmk was not
installed on my system.  In this case the docstring of
org-latex-pdf-process says that

   Its value is ("%latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o
   %f" "%latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f"
   "%latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")

(which does not include bibtex, hence the problem I had) while, if
latexmk is installed,

   Its value is ("latexmk -f -pdf -%latex -interaction=nonstopmode
   -output-directory=%o %f")

In other words, in the minimal example I provided earlier in the
thread, if latexmk is installed I only need (require 'oc-natbib) in
the emacs init file, in agreement with what others have proposed.

But now I wonder if this excerpt of the docstring:

   Consider a smart LaTeX compiler such as ‘texi2dvi’ or ‘latexmk’,
   which calls the "correct" combinations of auxiliary programs.

is appropriate.  How understand it when latexmk _is_ installed?  But
even when latexmk is not installed, I don't find the sentence helpful.
In fact, I had read this part but, as I did not know what latexmk was,
I did not know what to do with it.  Perhaps I would have understood if
it had been explicit that the value of org-latex-pdf-process depends
on the existence of latexmk.  (And I still don't understand the
relevance of the reference to texi2dvi.)


-- 
EOST (École et Observatoire des Sciences de la Terre) 
ITE (Institut Terre & Environnement) | alain.cochard@unistra.fr
5 rue René Descartes   [bureau 106]  | Phone: +33 (0)3 68 85 50 44 
F-67084 Strasbourg Cedex, France     | [ slot available for rent ]



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-08 11:17 @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-08 12:05 ` Bruce D'Arcus
@ 2022-07-17  8:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-17  8:52   ` Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-19 20:35   ` Joost Kremers
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-07-17  8:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alain.cochard; +Cc: Org Mode List

Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes:

> My .bib file is 
>
>    @string{jgr="J. Geophys. Res."}
>    @ARTICLE{chouet88,
>    journal=jgr,
>    author={Chouet, B.}, title={Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...]},
>    year={1988}, volume={93}, number={B5}, pages={4375-4400}

Fixed on main via c550a4290.

After discussion with Emacs devs, it turned out that there is a way to
make bibtex.el parse and substitute @string abbreviations.

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-17  8:26 ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-17  8:52   ` Alain.Cochard
  2022-07-19 20:35   ` Joost Kremers
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Alain.Cochard @ 2022-07-17  8:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: alain.cochard, Org Mode List

Ihor Radchenko writes on Sun 17 Jul 2022 16:26:

 > Fixed on main via c550a4290.
 > 
 > After discussion with Emacs devs, it turned out that there is a way to
 > make bibtex.el parse and substitute @string abbreviations.

I don't know what "Fixed on main via c550a4290" means, but I just made
a 'git pull' (release_9.5.4-630-gbf930b) and now @string is expanded
as expected.

Thanks.


-- 
EOST (École et Observatoire des Sciences de la Terre) 
ITE (Institut Terre & Environnement) | alain.cochard@unistra.fr
5 rue René Descartes   [bureau 106]  | Phone: +33 (0)3 68 85 50 44 
F-67084 Strasbourg Cedex, France     | [ slot available for rent ]



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-17  8:26 ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-17  8:52   ` Alain.Cochard
@ 2022-07-19 20:35   ` Joost Kremers
  2022-07-19 20:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Joost Kremers @ 2022-07-19 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode


On Sun, Jul 17 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes:
>
>> My .bib file is 
>>
>>    @string{jgr="J. Geophys. Res."}
>>    @ARTICLE{chouet88,
>>    journal=jgr,
>>    author={Chouet, B.}, title={Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...]},
>>    year={1988}, volume={93}, number={B5}, pages={4375-4400}
>
> Fixed on main via c550a4290.
>
> After discussion with Emacs devs, it turned out that there is a way to
> make bibtex.el parse and substitute @string abbreviations.

So does this mean there is no longer any reason to add parsebib to (Non-)GNU
ELPA?


-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-19 20:35   ` Joost Kremers
@ 2022-07-19 20:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
  2022-07-20 10:46       ` Joost Kremers
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Bruce D'Arcus @ 2022-07-19 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joost Kremers; +Cc: Ihor Radchenko, alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode

On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 4:37 PM Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 17 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> > Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes:
> >
> >> My .bib file is
> >>
> >>    @string{jgr="J. Geophys. Res."}
> >>    @ARTICLE{chouet88,
> >>    journal=jgr,
> >>    author={Chouet, B.}, title={Resonance of a fluid-driven crack: [...]},
> >>    year={1988}, volume={93}, number={B5}, pages={4375-4400}
> >
> > Fixed on main via c550a4290.
> >
> > After discussion with Emacs devs, it turned out that there is a way to
> > make bibtex.el parse and substitute @string abbreviations.
>
> So does this mean there is no longer any reason to add parsebib to (Non-)GNU
> ELPA?

No, since parsebib is an important dependency for citeproc-el, and
Ihor was suggesting Andras try to get that in ELPA.

Bruce


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-19 20:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
@ 2022-07-20 10:46       ` Joost Kremers
  2022-07-28 12:12         ` Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Joost Kremers @ 2022-07-20 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bruce D'Arcus; +Cc: Ihor Radchenko, alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode


On Tue, Jul 19 2022, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>> So does this mean there is no longer any reason to add parsebib to (Non-)GNU
>> ELPA?
>
> No, since parsebib is an important dependency for citeproc-el, and
> Ihor was suggesting Andras try to get that in ELPA.

Ok, thanks. Sending my copyright assignment now...

-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-20 10:46       ` Joost Kremers
@ 2022-07-28 12:12         ` Ihor Radchenko
  2022-07-29  8:02           ` Joost
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-07-28 12:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joost Kremers; +Cc: Bruce D'Arcus, alain.cochard, emacs-orgmode

Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 19 2022, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>>> So does this mean there is no longer any reason to add parsebib to (Non-)GNU
>>> ELPA?
>>
>> No, since parsebib is an important dependency for citeproc-el, and
>> Ihor was suggesting Andras try to get that in ELPA.
>
> Ok, thanks. Sending my copyright assignment now...

Did you manage to get the copyright form from FSF?
They are supposed to respond within 5 working days.

Best,
Ihor


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite
  2022-07-28 12:12         ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-07-29  8:02           ` Joost
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Joost @ 2022-07-29  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: fatiparty---

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022, at 14:12, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Did you manage to get the copyright form from FSF?
> They are supposed to respond within 5 working days.

Yeah, I have the form. I signed it and scanned it, just haven't sent it off yet...

-- 
Joost Kremers
Life has its moments


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib]
  2022-07-13  4:52     ` Alain.Cochard
@ 2022-08-07 14:08       ` Ihor Radchenko
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-08-07 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alain.Cochard; +Cc: Bruce D'Arcus, Org Mode List

Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes:

> Alain.Cochard@unistra.fr writes on Sat  9 Jul 2022 08:10:
>
>  > the examples I found on this mailing list did not work for me).
>
> I think I now understand why this was so: because latexmk was not
> installed on my system.  In this case the docstring of
> org-latex-pdf-process says that
>
>    Its value is ("%latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o
>    %f" "%latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f"
>    "%latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
>
> (which does not include bibtex, hence the problem I had) while, if
> latexmk is installed,

Can we improve the default value to have a BibTeX call?

Also, we may add a section describing recommended software to be
installed for LaTeX export (like latexmk).

WDYT?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-08-07 14:07 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-07-08 11:17 @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Alain.Cochard
2022-07-08 12:05 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-07-09  3:55   ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-09  8:40     ` András Simonyi
2022-07-10  9:22       ` Can citeproc be installed without using MELPA? (was: @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite) Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-10 19:37         ` Joost Kremers
2022-07-11  2:06           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-12 10:23             ` András Simonyi
2022-07-09  6:10   ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite [and a minimal working example with natbib] Alain.Cochard
2022-07-09 12:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-07-10  7:17     ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-12 11:14       ` András Simonyi
2022-07-12 11:36         ` John Kitchin
2022-07-12 11:48           ` András Simonyi
2022-07-13  4:52     ` Alain.Cochard
2022-08-07 14:08       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-17  8:26 ` @string abbreviation in bib file not honored in (basic) org-cite Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-17  8:52   ` Alain.Cochard
2022-07-19 20:35   ` Joost Kremers
2022-07-19 20:40     ` Bruce D'Arcus
2022-07-20 10:46       ` Joost Kremers
2022-07-28 12:12         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-29  8:02           ` Joost

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