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From: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
To: Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de>
Cc: org-mode mailing list <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
	Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca>
Subject: Re: Re: Custom entry IDs in HTML export
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:28:52 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <43758593-D9D0-43BC-B4D9-14E036C66271@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <878wm1ugml.fsf@kassiopeya.MSHEIMNETZ>


On Apr 16, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>> Hi Sebastian,
>>
>> I kind of like the idea to have a property that can be
>> used to set an ID, as an alternative to the <<target>>
>> notation.  Actually, using a property seems a lot cleaner,
>> thanks for coming up with this idea, Daniel.
>>
>> I can also follow the reasoning that it is useful to have
>> the table of contents link to the human-readable id, because
>> it provides a general, simple workflow to retrieve a link that
>> will persist through changes of the document.  This workflow
>> was described also by Bernt earlier in this thread.
>>
>> Finally, I also agree that the main id in the <h3> tag
>> should be the automatically generated one because this is
>> best for automatic processing and because of all the arguments
>> you have presented.
>>
>> Would it cause problems for org-info.js if the toc points to
>> a user specified anchor in the headline, instead of the main
>> ID that is inside the <h3> tag?  THis would really be the only
>> required change.
>
>
> I'll have to test this before I can give a final answer to this
> question.
>
> But regardless of the results, I will adjust the script to reflect  
> that
> change. The script should not rule the HTML export and it will be an
> easy thing to do.

But I do want to hear any counter arguments you might have....

- Carsten

>
>  Sebastian
>
>
>
>> - Carsten
>>
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Daniel Clemente wrote:
>>
>>> El dv, mar 27 2009, Sebastian Rose va escriure:
>>>>
>>>> What we have now, just as Carstens said:
>>>>
>>>> # <<human-readable>>
>>>> * Section B
>>>>
>>>> Creates this headline in HTML:
>>>>
>>>> <h2 id="sec-2"><a name="human-readable" id="human-readable"></a>2  
>>>> Section B
>>>> </h2>
>>>>
>>>> This is enough for all the use cases I can think of.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, this is enough except for two things:
>>> 1. The TOC still links to #sec-2 and the user can't change that
>>> 2. Your syntax doesn't fold very well in the outliner. I mean: if  
>>> you use
>>>
>>>> # <<human-readable>>
>>>> * Section B
>>>
>>> then the comment appears at the end of the previous section, and  
>>> you can miss
>>> it when you are viewing the heading „Section B“. I  would swap  
>>> both lines
>>> (solution 1):
>>>
>>>> * Section B
>>>> # <<human-readable>>
>>>
>>> But since there are already LOGBOOK drawers under the heading, it  
>>> would be a
>>> lot clearer to use a property, like EXPORT_ID (solution 2):
>>>
>>>> * Section B
>>>> :PROPERTIES:
>>>> :EXPORT_ID: human-readable
>>>> :END:
>>>
>>>
>>> In this way, the TOC can reliably find the EXPORT_ID, and then  
>>> generate:
>>>> <h2 id="sec-2"><a name="human-readable" id="human-readable"></a>2  
>>>> Section B
>>>> </h2>
>>>
>>> (You could also leave *just* the human-readable id, but having two  
>>> is not
>>> bad.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would prefer solution 1, but I don't because I'm not sure that  
>>> the TOC can
>>> find the ID if it is written as a comment anywhere under  the  
>>> heading (and
>>> together with other things).
>>>
>>> Solution 2 involves thus: a new property to specify the human-
>>> readable entry ID, which will be used to link to the entry. The  
>>> automatic ID
>>> (#sec-2) will still work for all entrys.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * Distinguishing automatic and human readable IDs
>>>>
>>>> One thing I like is, that we now _can_ distinguish the
>>>> `human-readable-target' (human readable) from the `sec-2' (not  
>>>> human
>>>> readable and not context related) using a regular expression.
>>>>
>>>> In org-info.js, I can now prefere the human readable ID in <a>  
>>>> from an
>>>> automatic created one, and thus use that to create the links for  
>>>> `l'
>>>> and `L'. The same holds true for other programming languages and
>>>> parsers.
>>>>
>>>> If we open the <h3>'s ID for user defined values (bad), we can not
>>>> distinguish those ID's using a regular expression and there is no  
>>>> way
>>>> to detect the human readable one. There will be no way to _know_  
>>>> that
>>>> the <a>'s ID is the prefered one used for human readable links.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Solution 2 doesn't break the parsing techniques you use; in fact  
>>> it can also
>>> make clearer which ID is the human readable one and which  one not.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is not extremely important; just useful:
>>> - for pages with many incoming links from external sites
>>> - to ensure link integrity (now you can't assure that links will  
>>> still work in
>>> 1 year ... or in some weeks)
>>> - to avoid that HTML visitors get directed to a wrong section and  
>>> can't find
>>> what they searched
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>
> -- 
> Sebastian Rose, EMMA STIL - mediendesign, Niemeyerstr.6, 30449  
> Hannover
> Tel.:  +49 (0)511 - 36 58 472
> Fax:   +49 (0)1805 - 233633 - 11044
> mobil: +49 (0)173 - 83 93 417
> Email: s.rose@emma-stil.de, sebastian_rose@gmx.de
> Http:  www.emma-stil.de

  reply	other threads:[~2009-04-16 11:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-03-27 12:47 Custom entry IDs in HTML export Daniel Clemente
2009-03-27 16:16 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-03-27 17:57   ` Bernt Hansen
2009-03-27 21:32     ` Sebastian Rose
2009-03-30 11:49       ` Daniel Clemente
2009-04-16  6:55         ` Carsten Dominik
2009-04-16  8:50           ` Sebastian Rose
2009-04-16 11:28             ` Carsten Dominik [this message]
2009-04-16 13:14               ` Sebastian Rose
2009-04-16 17:14                 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-04-16 20:50                   ` Sebastian Rose
2009-04-16 21:26                     ` Carsten Dominik
2009-04-16 22:37                       ` Sebastian Rose
2009-04-17  4:11                         ` Carsten Dominik

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