From: ypuntot <ypuntot@gmail.com>
Cc: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>, Org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 14:01:31 +0100 (GMT+01:00) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <407d04a9-d959-457f-a4b5-873825938fce@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Y9+dEGvIdSEFjdkg@protected.localdomain>
For the Poll, the Jeans proposal would be to introduce manually:
[2024-02-04 12:00 @America/Vancouver]
And org to convert it into:
[2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,America/Vancouver]
?
Ihor's would add the option to get warnings, in case tzdata changes, when that timestamp is generated?
[2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,!America/Vancouver]
?
Feb 5, 2023 13:12:25 Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>:
> * Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> [2023-02-05 13:45]:
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,America/Vancouver] will use fixed -8 offset
>
> What does that mean practically? Provide example for better
> understanding.
>
> - The UTC offset is not certain to remain fixed in the future.
>
> - If you do not have the time of creation of the timestamp above, you
> cannot know with certainty what was the offset in past, to calculate
> new UTC offset in case it changed
>
> - As not even time zone is certain to remain in existence in future,
> you will need to use time zone, in order to derive that future UTC
> offset correctly. As it could change in mean time.
>
> What is meaning of "fixed -8 offset"?
>
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08] will also use fixed -8 offset
>
> That type of timestamp does not clearly show the time zone, that one
> may only be understood as timestamp with UTC offset. UTC time may be
> derived from such timestamp. That offset should remain fixed, as there
> is no time zone associated. It is UTC time represented with offset.
>
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @America/Vancouver] will use @America/Vancouver time
>> zone, as it is be defined in you OS time zone database.
>
> If you do not keep UTC offset, you will miss changes in future and
> generate errors.
>
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,!America/Vancouver] (note "!") will use fixed -8
>> offset, but also calculate America/Vancouver time from TZ database,
>> compare it with the time coming from -8 offset, and warn you if there is
>> inconsistency.
>
> The UTC offset is the log what was the UTC offset at the time point
> when timestamp was created, as future UTC offset cannot be known.
>
> Making it "fixed" does not fix it in real time, you are then
> introducing something new than what other programs do with time.
>
> I do not think that you need "!", you are creating work not necessary
> for users.
>
> If users wish to get some warnings, let them customize single option.
>
> Not timestamp by timestamp.
>
> --
> Jean
>
> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
>
> In support of Richard M. Stallman
> https://stallmansupport.org/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-02-05 13:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-02-04 21:38 [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ypo
2023-02-05 3:12 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-05 9:31 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 10:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-05 12:12 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 13:01 ` ypuntot [this message]
2023-02-06 14:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-07 21:38 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-06 14:10 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-07 22:19 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-08 10:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-10 3:29 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-10 10:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-12 9:33 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-12 13:47 ` tomas
2023-02-14 6:00 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 9:41 ` Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-14 9:45 ` tomas
2023-02-14 11:42 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-14 15:59 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 16:45 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-16 14:21 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 16:57 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-14 10:45 ` Jean Louis
2023-03-10 10:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-08 13:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-10 1:37 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-11 4:44 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-12 10:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-15 15:17 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-16 15:06 ` Jean Louis
2023-03-10 10:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-15 14:42 ` Max Nikulin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-02-12 13:27 Ypo
2023-02-04 18:59 ypuntot
2023-02-04 19:45 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 17:04 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-07 21:46 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-17 3:55 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Daryl Manning
2023-01-17 8:22 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17 9:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 9:45 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 9:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 11:43 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 12:02 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 21:16 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 5:29 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 7:23 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 14:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 20:09 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 23:02 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 23:51 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 0:24 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20 3:46 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 6:14 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27 6:06 ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27 11:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 11:25 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 11:48 ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 12:19 ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-31 12:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
[not found] ` <CAL9aZksf8AGF=dXg0KAtLPyu1ATt1fLpvdsjN6GMCuK2KRQ56w@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-31 13:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 13:22 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 13:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 19:59 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 12:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:28 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 20:12 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 5:46 ` tomas
2023-02-01 7:29 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 7:52 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 8:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 8:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 9:38 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 10:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:53 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 10:46 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-01 14:43 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 3:05 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02 8:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:38 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:50 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 7:00 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-01 7:41 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 18:56 ` Greg Minshall
2023-02-01 12:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 12:52 ` tomas
2023-02-02 4:49 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 20:41 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31 23:50 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-01 13:01 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 22:33 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-04 22:49 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-05 10:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 11:56 ` Christian Moe
2023-02-01 12:20 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:41 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-02 8:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 11:31 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-04 10:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 19:32 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 9:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 3:46 ` Timothy
2023-02-02 9:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 9:12 ` Timothy
2023-02-02 9:20 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 9:27 ` Timothy
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