From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 11:55:54 +0200 Message-ID: <33E4DC13-3B6B-4803-9F00-2FB440F912C1@gmail.com> References: <87tylcy6gw.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <50AE8A48-F8C3-4358-88B2-25CF7A7D15E0@gmail.com> <87tylby319.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42144 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P0AWN-0003Ws-Ss for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 06:01:21 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P0ARD-0002IE-2g for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:56:00 -0400 Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:38666) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P0ARC-0002HN-Rb for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:55:59 -0400 Received: by eyh5 with SMTP id 5so1505888eyh.0 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2010 02:55:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87tylby319.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Dan Davison Cc: emacs org-mode mailing list On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Dan Davison wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:33 PM, Dan Davison wrote: >> >>> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be >>> made >>> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all >>> this >>> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an >>> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users >>> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a >>> Makefile. >>> >>> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the >>> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of >>> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I >>> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also >>> be >>> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file. >>> >>> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 >>> Installation: >>> >>> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of >>> "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you >>> sure you need the latest version of Org? If not, skip to the >>> Activation section and start using Org!" >> > > Hi Carsten, > >> I do agree that we should have this sentence, but maybe modified like >> this: >> >> If you have a recent release of Emacs, a version of Org-mode >> sufficient for all basic use is already included and you may >> skip the installation instructions and continue with section xxx, >> activation. >> >> However, Org-mode evolves fast. Therefore, we do recommend to >> install >> the >> most recent release. > > OK. > >> >> Maybe we could actually have an Emacs command that will insert the >> basic stuff >> into .emacs and optionally compile the Lisp files. >> >> The installation would be: >> >> - download and unpack tar file >> - emacs -l path-to-org.el >> - M-x org-install >> >> org-install would figure out where org.el is, add to .emacs and query >> for compilation. This wouod make things independent from make and >> other tools. > > Yes I wondered about making something like that yesterday (would it > make > sense to have emacs do everything, including the download? This rings a bell - I think Sebastian Rose implemented that already. Let search! - Carsten > M-x > org-update-org?). But then I started thinking that we should > investigate/rule out the ELPA possibilities before creating a new > install function for Org. Maybe some people on this list have > experience > of maintaining packages on ELPA and will be able to give an opinion. > > Dan > > >> >> Just my 5c >> >> - Carsten >> >> >>> >>> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route: >>> 1. Quick and easy >>> Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install) >>> Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?) >>> Suggested text below. >>> 2. Full install >>> Based on existing instructions >>> >>> >>> What do people think? Is it just the info files which are the issue? >>> What does a single-user machine gain from installation other than >>> info >>> files? >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> Footnotes: >>> >>> [1] How about including in Org-mode a function `org-compile' based >>> on >>> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.php#compiling-org-without-make >>> and `org-reload' >>> >>> >>> Example quick and Easy installation text: >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> 1. Download the latest version >>> .zip and .tar.gz version are kept at >>> http://orgmode.org/org-latest.zip >>> http://orgmode.org/org-latest.tar.gz >>> >>> 2. Extract the archived files >>> This will create a folder called "org-mode". Let's say that the >>> location of this folder is "~/path/to/org-mode" (for Windows see >>> footnote [1]) >>> >>> 3. Add the following lines to your .emacs file (note that we're >>> pointing >>> to the "lisp" folder *within* the main "org-mode" folder): >>> >>> (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path) >>> (require 'org-install) >>> >>> That's it. However, this will not install the latest info files, so >>> these will be out of date (corresponding to whatever version of Org >>> shipped with your emacs). See XXXX for instructions on installing >>> the >>> info files. >>> >>> Now, Emacs should load whatever version of Org-mode you put at >>> "~/path/to/org-mode". So to update Org in the future, simply delete >>> that >>> folder and replace it with a new one (steps 1 and 2 above). >>> >>> Footnotes: >>> >>> [1] On Windows, this path might look something like >>> "C:\\path\to\org-mode" >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode