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From: Denis Maier <denismaier@mailbox.org>
To: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus@gmail.com>,
	John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
Cc: Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr>,
	emacs-orgmode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: org-cite: how to include a cite with no key?
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:50:33 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2bcd2053-539b-fc8a-7248-f1fe270855e2@mailbox.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAF-FPGMWgjHMkDvZeB5EP=C1LnGQAZCs9=+MikpgOmNu4t_OiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Am 20.07.2021 um 13:41 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus:
> On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 8:48 PM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 7:28 PM Emmanuel Charpentier <emm.charpentier@free.fr> wrote:
>>>> In natbib there is \citetext{priv.\ comm.} which is used to add a
>>>> textual citation to the bibliography that doesn't have a key
>>>> associated with it.

Oh, I didn't know about that one in natbib.

>>> Hmmm... why should you bother to reference a personal communication ?
>>> Such private communications may be mentionned in the text (possibly by
>>> a footnote) but can't be properly referenced (since there is nothing to
>>> refer to). If you feel that this communication must be referred to, you
>>> should give it some (written) support and (properly) reference this
>>> support.
>> Who is to say why someone would bother. It is a command on page two of
>> http://tug.ctan.org/macros/latex/contrib/natbib/natnotes.pdf that one can use.
>> It is also possible to use  \nocite{*} as a cite, which includes all
>> references from a bibliography, and yet contains no key. Even funnier in a way is \nocite{key} which just adds entries to the bibliography, but does not cite them in the body of a document.
>> Footnotes are not always allowed in publications, and for various reasons not worth defending, in proposals one might want to put this in the references because of space limitations.
> If not a footnote, a parenthetical note?
> What's the value of a citation and bibliography processor handling
> formatting here?
> Certainly in the CSL world, this has never been supported, and I don't
> ever recall it ever coming up (though I'm sure someone on the Zotero
> forum raised it at some point)

I'm pretty sure I've brought that up at some point :-)
FWIW, Biblatex knows a similar command \mancite.

Use cases:
Beyond personal communication, which I personally have never used, there 
are disciplines (classics, theology, religious studies) that refer to 
some classical works (Bible, Quran, etc.) with certain well-known 
abbrevations. Usually those works don't appear in the bibliography. This 
leads to problems with automatic citations, especially when you also use 
"ibid." and such...

Bla [cite:@doe].
Blabla (Gen 1).
Bla [cite:@doe].

Bla (Doe 2020).
Blabla (Gen 1).
Bla (ibid.).

With biblatex you can use \mancite to reset the citation trackers.

Bla [cite:@doe].
Blabla (Gen 1)\mancite.
Bla [cite:@doe].

Bla (Doe 2020).
Blabla (Gen 1).
Bla (Doe 2020).


  reply	other threads:[~2021-07-20 12:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-19 23:28 org-cite: how to include a cite with no key? Emmanuel Charpentier
2021-07-20  0:47 ` John Kitchin
2021-07-20  6:55   ` Matt Price
2021-07-20  7:31     ` Emmanuel Charpentier
2021-07-21 18:54       ` Matt Price
2021-07-20  7:25   ` Emmanuel Charpentier
2021-07-20 11:41   ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-07-20 12:50     ` Denis Maier [this message]
2021-07-20 13:50       ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-07-20 14:12         ` Denis Maier
2021-07-20 12:38   ` Stefan Nobis
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-07-19 17:02 John Kitchin

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