From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id YPncD8bTpGEKNwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:21:10 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id IIyEC8bTpGFHLwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:21:10 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0A2A403F for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:21:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:49134 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrgai-0004Ag-10 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:21:08 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40656) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrgZ1-00049c-Oy for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:19:24 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:37042) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mrgYz-0005hp-Co for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 08:19:23 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mrgYw-000431-KK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:19:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Karl Voit Subject: Re: "Orgdown", the new name for the syntax of Org-mode Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:19:10 +0100 Organization: www.karl-voit.at Message-ID: <2021-11-29T14-12-55@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> References: <2021-11-28T20-44-37@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <875ysb7v1r.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) X-GPG-Key: http://www.Karl-Voit.at/Karl_Voit_GnuPG_public_key.gpg X-Registered-Linux-User: 224337 X-Confession: Pastafarian http://www.venganza.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Karl Voit Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638192069; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:references:references:list-id: list-help:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=gkiNECQbwP7sb8j75jzbH0lkvkwDZiTUiyyF0XlHhkQ=; b=nvJy22Wz3r1e2E21i7AC5dOxeODgNHRjJk1ZsHtQqAD7x/aFw9bn2DtMnQFRtfsClqffFQ xvPtSxDZaNH2c6NZihiTZ5evKPnq0SVkWFAMQgglyqkIOOlHoJr14gZFsYkRPiegpAJKrv /xGxfnM7fKJAF93zjGWJ9FI0SdX6E2d9wYfkYzY+z4g7Xv4JD7G/C11wC9I1cs4cyOv4JH 5N1sp6zkKIjz//qmAiBVQpad+RFQOUREL0OXW8Cyi9Vd9EOUKNJSPYSK7/rDl+7Ol12QN6 m0eGb/oWBN8rNMJP2GBqZpuOq4iF+XmGL3vNhJuym+RMQHYHGnND96jEMPMLhQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638192069; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Mo8bc+V/oV5xwop7TtuxZn9pcMAbcGQENKoOue1notRPdarIES/f9xgQipCdCNJIdaIzU3 Nt8GyT9wFYuesXuR4FJk53h7PMMOi4LmiljUk542b9a+wXPOEuf8+IC0AZLap4H7mvEz+w aQwp+NkqHAViHvNVF5ziRpRwMmzo6Iv6Qx/TVdnjOeNP3rGf16/CcG4XcOR2ZuzIl8e4rz RjgoBFCSOToTjPqLA6/KoSmabJeM6BDmRx5wcLUaYz9c9wScdK9tQZWKi0axi33wu+LDKT xHspfq1MGywRGppmo6q/EM/YlljQR+csQA3+WzkcYwzPo90re05C2HwF0xKDvg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.91 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B0A2A403F X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: pGpcb+vfJ7U7 Hi Tim, * Tim Cross wrote: > > Hi Karl, > > while I can appreciate the point you are making, I'm doubtful your > suggestion will gain the traction necessary to work. You might be right. Only time will tell. ;-) > To me, it feels a little like the frequent posts from RMS in the > emacs-devel list where he gets upset when people refer to Linux > instead of GNU Linux. I disagree here. Linux vs. GNU/Linux are two different names for the same thing. Org-mode is an Elisp implementation and Orgdown is just a syntax definition. So they are completely different things. > To some extent, the distinction will be too subtle for many and > often, it isn't clear whether an issue is a syntax definition > (orgdown) or an implementation bug or just simply user > misunderstanding. It seems to be the case that the name "Orgdown" is the reason why the Org-mode community does not support the idea of an implementation-agnostic definition of the syntax. Which is ... kinda funny if you think about it. Well if the project is not working out, at least I made my point and we continue to have all those misunderstandings and lack of Orgdown support in 3rd party tools (because Org-mode is way too big). > Perhaps we just need a name for the markup syntax which doesn't actually > reference 'org' at all - it simply is the markup syntax which org > happens to use. A completely separate name might avoid confusion and > would make it very clear that the markup syntax is not org mode. Problem > is, naming is terribly difficult and I have no suggestions on what would > be a good name. Oh, there is a very large danger here of getting something that is not compatible with Org-mode any more. I don't think that this would be a good thing. At least the different flavors killed the fun of Markdown for me. > I have not yet viewed your video, but will certainly be doing so. Again, > agree with the sentiment of what your trying to do, just not convinced > it is compatible with basic human nature. Maybe we need to differ between the Org-mode community with potential bias and the main target group of people who did use Markdown in the past and never have heard of Org-mode before? -- get mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML into Org-mode: > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs < Personal Information Management > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/pim/ Emacs-related > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/emacs/