From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Jean Louis Subject: Re: NLS/Augment Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 20:39:04 +0200 Message-ID: <20190813183904.GC26202@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <20190812084345.GC20344@protected.rcdrun.com> <87v9v2yxo7.fsf@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45697) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hxbhv-0000Wb-65 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:39:44 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hxbht-00040a-I6 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:39:43 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:37055) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hxbht-0003pJ-AO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:39:41 -0400 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87v9v2yxo7.fsf@alphapapa.net> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Adam Porter Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org * Adam Porter [2019-08-12 21:50]: > Thanks for sharing those links, those videos are fascinating. It's > amazing how much some of what he demonstrates resembles features in Org > and Emacs, and even surpasses them, over 50 years ago! Even the > presentation itself, with picture-in-picture videoconferencing with > screen sharing, surpasses most conference presentations on YouTube! I am glad to have found that information as it clarifies what means Internet as from its beginnings. That is definitely the first thing to teach in computer classes when mentioning Internet. It is also sad state that for long time the concepts were not available to people and still are not. The file system concept is somehow unintentionally or intentionally hidden to common people. It is a hierarchy, a data tree, that is well suitable for nice sorting of files, but how to sort files really is not well explained, it is somehow lacking. For example there is not example concept given in books or instructions of operating systems on how to keep files. I think it would be beneficial. So is the concept of hierarchical data management or structured data management. And I remember the concept of entering the links and menus already from the BBS[1], and I do not know why and how, I remember being isolated in former Yugoslavia, without any contact to Internet or outside knowledge, and we were making similar menus like on the demo of Douglas Engelbart[2] on our small replicas of TRS-80 computers. Video conferencing is quite a large need and have been shown in movies so many times, but is still not developed and not in use by large. Sad situation, I was really expecting much more from the 21st century, about 50 years after the inventions of Douglas Engelbart. Org mode is a simple way by which one can build such augmented information systems. But it is not as integrated. Look at "What it offered"[3]: > Doug's lab pioneered progressive work processes while using each > successive version of NLS/Augment for all its own knowledge work, > from drafting, publishing, email, shared screen collaborative > viewing and editing There are packages and possibilities for shared screen and collaborative viewing, publishing on Internet and editing. I am not sure if this is really demanded overall. But in one way or other we have it in GNU Emacs. GNU Emacs basically became what NLS/Augment offered and what Douglas Engelbart envisioned > document cataloging Not sure about that, but software tools exist for this, maybe one such is Orgadoc[4], and document indexers also exist. However, not well integrated and not easily accessible to population. > project management We are lucky that Org mode offers project management features provided the user knows how to start and where to start. But what about the population? Project management shall be introduced in my opinion by every operating system. In fact every operating system shall be given to user with one or other similar information management package. For my biased needs it would be best to improve the GNU Emacs to the level that it can boot and then offer to users options to launch other software. > shared address book, I guess that LDAP[5] and various CRM[6] related software do offer such possibilites. We still do not have such options from GNU Emacs, I wish we would. It is necessary for any larger organization or remote work stations to have some kind of centralized database from which access to shared address book would be possible. I guess this can be easily implemented in GNU Emacs by creating an SQL database to which Emacs work stations could gain the access. Of course there would be no need for slow motion browsers. > all source code development and maintenance This we surely have within Emacs > -- all in an integrated hyper groupware environment filled with > special features for high performance work. Emacs has this pretty much, but not as much as I would wish and like. Hyperlinking is important feature. We cannot just link everything in Emacs. GNU Hyperbole[7] have given the concept of linking to many information references, but it is not as polished and not as easy to go for common man. > For example, you can create a link to any paragraph or line of code > or email paragraph That would be great. I need this feature, this would be so useful. It should not matter which type of file it is. Not just Org files, it should work like Hyperbole on many other files. > you can see when paragraphs and lines of code were last edited and > by whom Version control systems exist, we have this. > and even view a file filtered by author since a certain date and > time (as in why doesn't the code work this morning, let's see who > was in there changing what when!) This can be known today by using version control systems, including file system ownership. > you can browse with outline views, Many outlines modes exist in GNU Emacs. Org mode is one of them. I wish Org could have some more features from the Cherrytree[8], yet both are doing very nice. Koutliner[9] is GNU Hyperbole way for outline view of information, which may link to all kinds of documents and provide similar NLS/Augment features. > drill down into the structure of a document or source code and fly > around with a number of precision browsing features and custom > viewing features, and edit the structure as well as the text, within > and across files and application domains. This we surely have with the GNU Emacs. But hey, we are re-discovering what was known and discovered 50 years ago. And we get so much excited. So why nobody teach the basics of NLS/Augment concepts when computer is started? Is entertainment more important for our civilization or learning how to organize ourselves? Is it intentional that we are moved away from efficient computer usage? Jean Footnotes: [1] Bulletin Board Systems [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart [3] http://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/155/87/ [4] https://www.gnu.org/software/orgadoc/ [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_Directory_Access_Protocol [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_relationship_management [7] https://www.gnu.org/software/hyperbole/ [8] https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/ [9] https://www.gnu.org/software/hyperbole/koutline-example.html