From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Marcin Borkowski Subject: Re: Org Tutorials need more structure Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:00:00 +0200 Message-ID: <20131001230000.7f92814f@aga-netbook> References: <20130928103048.GO12411@kuru.dyndns-at-home.com> <87bo38hgs6.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47354) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VR73H-0005dx-7L for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 17:00:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VR73B-0004zB-8b for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 17:00:14 -0400 Received: from msg.wmi.amu.edu.pl ([2001:808:114:2::50]:45502) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VR73B-0004yd-1Y for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Oct 2013 17:00:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msg.wmi.amu.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1962D4AC76 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:00:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from msg.wmi.amu.edu.pl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (msg.wmi.amu.edu.pl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X8jIpIop-h5K for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:00:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from aga-netbook (99-52.echostar.pl [213.156.99.52]) by msg.wmi.amu.edu.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6D1B4AC41 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2013 23:00:06 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87bo38hgs6.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Dnia 2013-10-01, o godz. 13:34:17 David Rogers napisa=C5=82(a): > Suvayu Ali writes: >=20 > > Hi Joseph, > > > > On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 09:22:02AM +0200, Joseph Vidal-Rosset wrote: > >>=20 > >> Example: I am presently mainly interested to see if it is possible > >> to use gnus to write a scientific letter with all conveniences of > >> texlive. Of course I can open a tex file with letter class and > >> send to my colleague a pdf file. But it would be more convenient > >> to write an email and using conversions to html and png images to > >> send to him directly this email. I guess it is possilbe to do it > >> with gnus. But the documentation is esoteric: I hear about links, > >> but how it works concretly with example understanble by a > >> newby ... mystery. It is therefore frustrating and quickly > >> discouraging. > > > > Your example is not beginner's tutorial at all! Nor is it something > > that the manual can cover. For esoteric/specific needs like this > > "advanced tutorials" are more appropriate. >=20 > Part of this situation, part of what can be improved about the > tutorials, is that a beginner cannot know whether his request belongs > in a beginner's tutorial or not. Beginners cannot know ahead of time > what's hard and what's easy, and beginners often wonder "Can it do > that amazing thing I've been wishing I could do?" when they see a > piece of software that's new to them. Well, in case of Org-mode, surprisingly often the answer is "Yes, it can." ;) > Face it - Org-mode is ALREADY esoteric in itself, so it's quite > reasonable that beginners will continue to expect it to be able to do > esoteric things that don't happen to be the ones that are already > easy - unless there's a convenient way for them to find out. I woudn't call Org-mode "esoteric". For Emacs users, it is quite a natural thing. For non-Emacs-users, maybe, but still, its simplicity and newbie-friendliness is amazing (deceptively, I'd call it;)). Best, --=20 Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Adam Mickiewicz University