From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Suvayu Ali Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 22:57:42 +0100 Message-ID: <20130308215742.GA27071@kuru.dyndns-at-home.com> References: <87ip5199x7.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87r4jpk4mp.fsf@lapcat.tftorrey.com> <87boat1tdv.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45578) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE5Ia-0001Tt-R7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 16:58:01 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE5IS-0004Yt-HF for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 16:57:56 -0500 Received: from mail-wg0-f47.google.com ([74.125.82.47]:46934) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UE5IS-0004Yb-Bg for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 16:57:48 -0500 Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id dr13so2961424wgb.2 for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87boat1tdv.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi, On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 10:19:56PM +0100, Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > tftorrey@tftorrey.com (T.F. Torrey) writes: > > > > Org, on the other hand, seems to be moving away from that in many ways. > > Headlines must start with stars because I might someday post something > > on the web and it wouldn't work for someone else? Other tools might not > > recognize my file correctly? A developer of some other tool might > > someday have a problem? These are not good reasons for limiting what I > > can do with my own Org files. [...] > My point of view is the following: Org (as a format) definition > shouldn't depend on Emacs. It should be totally parseable by any > language (which is not the case actually, since syntax relies on > variables defined in Emacs). IOW, we should work to make it a real > plain-text markup format. This discussion comes up again and again over the years. Every time the conclusion has been, there are many who want to use other characters instead of a star but the rational is always cosmetic. And in the end people end up agreeing it is not worth the pain. To give you an example of breakage, after long whining github started supporting org file formatting for READMEs via org-ruby (even source blocks I think!). Do you expect we can have similar support if something as fundamental as the headline is not well defined? Other possible breakages could be in org-merge-driver, VimOrganizer, org-sync, some of the collaborative editing projects that have been spawning, and the list goes on ... FWIW, assuming that the rational behind this feature request is cosmetic, there was a proposal to implement this as overlays. So the file still uses *-s but a user can customise how they are displayed. I think this addresses almost all requests in this category (majority being "I want really cool UTF characters instead of boring old asterisk"). If someone is interested in implementing this, I'm pretty sure the maintainers would give that a serious consideration for inclusion. Changing the file format on the other hand is a no go amongst many of the users (myself included) and developers alike. Hope my 2¢ shed some light on the implications of a change like this. Cheers, -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free.