From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Karl Voit Subject: Re: A new module for Org-mode: Org-X Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:25:23 +0200 Message-ID: <2011-08-15T12-16-23@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> References: <2011-08-14T19-14-58@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> Reply-To: news1142@Karl-Voit.at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:57777) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QsuMb-0002Kv-Ip for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:25:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QsuMa-0003JL-F0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:25:45 -0400 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:42321) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QsuMa-0003JE-5c for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 06:25:44 -0400 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QsuMU-0008Ia-2z for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:25:38 +0200 Received: from mail.michael-prokop.at ([88.198.6.110]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:25:38 +0200 Received: from news1142 by mail.michael-prokop.at with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:25:38 +0200 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org * John Wiegley wrote: > Karl Voit writes: > >> Wow. This looks like exactly what I want to achieve with the >> «Memacs» project on [1]. We certainly need to exchange ideas and >> code :-) > > They sure do sound similar in spirit!! It's like we are tuned to the same > wavelength. :) *g* >> Our plan is to use Python to simply generate org (archive) files from >> different sources since we do have no ELISP knowledge and Python does >> already have beautiful libraries for RegEx, string manipulation, XML, JSON, > > I have to say that one of my personal requirements is that such a system be > implemented as much in Emacs Lisp as possible. I hate debugging code that's > "in between" Emacs and some other system. Plus, I have excellent > documentation, debugging and profiling resources available to me in Emacs, but > I've never found anything close to equivalent in Python (and I've tried them > all: ipython, pydb, ropemacs, etc). Developing in Emacs is just so efficient > and fun, that I do it as much for recreation as to get things done. I am sure that ELISP is cool. But here, we do not have any LISP knowledge at all and I hardly know anyone in our hacking community who is really into ELISP I am afraid. So I have to stick to my (local) resources. In my point of view, it is no problem at all because the «API» we do have is the format of Org-mode files. Memacs is - unlike your system - not done with Emacs at all: Python scripts generate Org-mode files and that is all. This is a fundamental difference in our attempts - I know. Maybe our systems could cooperate like Memacs doing in-between-filtering and Org-X the integration to Org-mode or similar. >> We do not have any code yet but two of my students began to work on the >> project. > > Are they Lisp programmers? No. I know not a single ELISP programmer here at my side :-( >From my point of view - and I am sure this may differ from reality! - ELISP is some kind of niche language that is slowly going down in popularity. Again: this is not what I want it to be, this is my very personal experience. > If so, perhaps we could combine our efforts. Sure. But we can not provide ELISP code. So my current plan is still: stick to Python, let the finished (auto-generated) Org-mode files be the «API». It's better to do *something* (in Python) than to do nothing at all. > Since my own needs are immediate for this project, I should have the first > three backends for Org-X completed by month's end. By that time, the core API > should be stable and I'll be ready to merge this code into main. I've also > been writing for org.texi at the same time, so it will come fully documented > when it arrives. I sure will take a look at it! We do not have any plan when first Nexus and Memacs will be out. We are still in the early planning phase. -- Karl Voit