From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kFJLNh9JNGPKBAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 15:16:16 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id aNOJNR9JNGMjtQAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 15:16:15 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72902392B6 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 15:16:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56242 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odWv7-0001K1-R4 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:16:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35782) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odWhp-0007QB-4R for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:02:32 -0400 Received: from mailbackend.panix.com ([166.84.1.89]:44616) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odWhc-0003xF-KY for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:02:19 -0400 Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4McxTx3XYPz2wHR; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:02:13 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=panix.com; s=panix; t=1664370133; bh=AcSct1cGqDiuCs6jc63OKz2rMCZUzJC8cqHWN9M3UVY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=OF6k9daD775bQKBKo29JX8ha2jYwLtOKrUnXlYwfP6CHqnqHdfQ3YkaOPdEJooKzN Bw9NTG7qv/FjZ8riSzGsshjzuB45lBEz4CLinS5jFfXktGAviO5n5VEYXfJzj0n7Wi FrEyTqtMnl6qyTCPkXfMrAJe75oEmdQ+jisUpqOM= Received: by panix1.panix.com (Postfix, from userid 20712) id 4McxTx3S83zcbc; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by panix1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4McxTx3LmmzcbC; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:02:13 -0400 From: Jude DaShiell To: Tim Cross cc: Timothy , Ihor Radchenko , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: org exported pdf files In-Reply-To: <867d1nj1yn.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f90ea22-de8b-a58f-6b20-a0984f67eeac@panix.com> References: <87a66lpm5p.fsf@localhost> <8735cdpkiz.fsf@localhost> <87y1u5o1ko.fsf@localhost> <87a66k2j5y.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <7edd911f-b74-6521-634e-7f30acdb5fad@panix.com> <867d1nj1yn.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Received-SPF: pass client-ip=166.84.1.89; envelope-from=jdashiel@panix.com; helo=mailbackend.panix.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1664370975; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=JB0cBQMy65+sdetLps1u+aU738K5K7IVeIB21AqcAtk=; b=oldDwdw0JicoIh89i0oci3Jbtokxcq30Lb/Ew6eopi64BH3OPjGKfvBLOAjP1RU0JnnJ0q QnnkdH6sUj5p06490Ty8bcsGUZzP6GSrgU6UnS2+577csNFvZ1Goi+QHonbX6LAsyFP7Cg NjsN8u/Aci6ibJXoxmsM5Jm7z2c1cvNWgruk8mL3dMl0JnMD9uCKFYGYGF9zZJqNeduHwr LQEnBge7BkmzpFhdOP+w+BKx4xo9wThYtGnt+HCXKhw8uUyerv2EolfG2kVO1lWFsEgbZI 1jrH7+ALlljccNXw8rtcNOOJYLz9BAKkXdf+UfuguzojFJvqqlH52IZQUI1Zwg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1664370975; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=AncXw5wtzYwN9JhjzoOPRf7+ZAvk6HnL7lKQN432UHu36M0x1Fsc77auMX83h0azJV8oGw fULfHPclszQmldk1RfgZSZR6y81jvTa+AHlgu6/vb89sYOZFNwHJYezx0BBxqcQ/0D/pX4 tQ9oNh3oSSjzem6jkg/ePJmA9WP/NR/Z5rQN1L+HWRRRlH7OQgEGLrjPk9RoRzFfK7mUY8 pP1eStgBfTDrtVpD7oHTSWHZBe19JtjLXXGFvrLv8sWL17pBvwLgefQFtsCG9zs/enBRRl dtvnVaBDEWDUUyiwGEVbDM9JI5yeojx/oUTCw9sSkJJHogjPl3oh93lh5RFdQw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=panix.com header.s=panix header.b=OF6k9daD; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=panix.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.35 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=panix.com header.s=panix header.b=OF6k9daD; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=panix.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 72902392B6 X-Spam-Score: 6.35 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: /majuW2NVCfZ I've never done anything with latex. The closest I got to latex was using groff for a little bit of time a long time ago. On this one I'm in way over my head without scuba gear. Apparently html and adobe left latex in the dust in so far as accessibility is concerned. Jude "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) . On Wed, 28 Sep 2022, Tim Cross wrote: > > Jude DaShiell writes: > > > It was one of the messages from this list that got me that reply. For > > now, when I get a pdf file I try extracting it with pdftotext and read the > > extracted text. I don't make pdf files or make pdf files available for > > anyone else. How adobe accessibility recommendations for pdf files will > > translate to Linux I don't know many were geared toward windows if memory > > serves. I haven't used windows since 2013 and don't intend using windows > > for the duration either. > > > > The problem is not with org mode, but rather with the limitations of > Latex. The basic problem is that latex pre-dates accessibility concerns > and lacks full support for tagging, alt text and other document > structure information necessary to make PDF files accessible. Adding a > language environment setting will have only minimal benefit. It is the > tagging and other structural information which is necessary to make > things really accessible i.e. the ability to browse a PDF document and > retain the structural relationships within the document and use that > information in a meaningful way - consider for example, browsing data > inside a table within a PDF document. > > There are accessibility working groups within the tex/latex community > who have been working on trying to improve accessibility of documents > created using latex and some progress has been made. However, it is > nowhere near the same level of sophistication as supported by other PDF > generators, like adobe's suite, which has very good accessibility > support and can enable production of some of the best accessible > documents I've used. > > There are a couple of additional latex packages which can be added to > documents which will provide some tagging and other structural > information which will significantly improve the accessibility of PDF > documents. I've not tested these with different engines. > > https://ctan.org/pkg/accessibility?lang=en > > and you would want ot add > > \usepackage[tagged, highstructure]{accessibility} > > to your packages list. > > To add accessibility for math formulas etc, you need > > https://ctan.org/pkg/axessibility?lang=en > > and add > > \usepackage{axessibility} > > As with other authoring, you also need to consider accessibility > requirements when creating your documents and do things like adding \alt > textg for figures etc. > > It would probably be good to add the two above packages as part of the > 'default' package preamble, but this would require considerable testing > as it isn't known if there will be adverse effects when mixed with other > packages. > > >