From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Thomas S. Dye" Subject: Re: Re: How to get pretty printed source code in PDFLaTeX Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 06:38:24 -1000 Message-ID: <1DF1CFB0-2986-4A04-A4D2-AF2279F0A54E@tsdye.com> References: <308653.38337.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <871vacswh4.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87aap0ol2n.fsf@gmx.de> <877hk4rbco.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <8762zoogf5.fsf@gmx.de> <87k4o4893x.fsf_-_@mundaneum.com> <87vd7nn9lt.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87aaovcyvc.fsf@mundaneum.com> <87hbj31kup.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55792 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OirqV-000292-J2 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:38:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OirqU-0006rE-6a for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:38:35 -0400 Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com ([66.147.249.253]:46049) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OirqT-0006po-Sd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:38:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87hbj31kup.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Dan Davison Cc: public-emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ@plane.gmane.org, emacs-orgmode list , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Vauban?= Hi Dan, One of the design goals of LaTeX is to use semantic markup in the =20 source and to keep details of representation separate, typically in a =20= style or class file that is used to render the semantic markup. =46rom =20= this perspective, the cleanest implementation would be to create a =20 LaTeX style or class file for use with org-mode, where the gory =20 details of listings vs. minted, etc. could be worked out. This would =20= leave org-mode to do what it does very well, which is to identify and =20= mark the relevant semantic units, and would at the same time simplify =20= org-mode configuration. For the user, this would require the org-mode.sty or org-mode.cls file =20= be placed somewhere LaTeX could find it and creating an export target =20= for it in .emacs. This might not qualify as "out of the box" but the looser coupling =20 between org-mode and LaTeX is likely to be a plus in the long run. All the best, Tom On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Dan Davison wrote: > > > S=E9bastien Vauban +FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> > writes: > >> Hi Dan, >> >> Dan Davison wrote: >>> S=E9bastien Vauban = >> > writes: >>>> Sebastian Rose wrote: >>>>> Dan Davison =20 >>>>> writes: >>>>>> Can you point me to an example that shows how to make source =20 >>>>>> code in >>>>>> latex look (almost) as nice as html? >>>>> >>>>> That is supposed to work with the `listings' package. I havent =20 >>>>> tried that >>>>> yet. >>>> >>>> If I understand you right, here's such an example you're after: >>>> >>>> * Much better code > > [...] > >>>> I've put the PDF (for easy access) onto my Web site: >>>> >>>> http://www.mygooglest.com/sva/ECM-Listings.pdf >>> >>> Wow, that's really nice. Thanks for sharing that. >> >> I really thought that you used such a thing for a long time, having =20= >> done so >> much for Org-Babel. Maybe you were more interested by the execution =20= >> stuff, >> rather than its printing? For me, the opposite: I was much =20 >> interested by the >> printing, now by accessing all the power of Babel. > > You're probably right that I should have looked into it. But seeing as > the HTML export of code is so nice and requred no configuration, I =20 > never > got round to it. Although I did write my Ph.D. in latex, and I am > enjoying using the listings package for formatting pseudocode in a =20 > paper > which I'm supposed to be writing, I do need to become better friends > with latex, it's true. > >>> I think we should aim to get to a point where org-mode can produce =20= >>> such >>> nicely formatted source code out-of-the-box. >> >> I share your point. I'm willing to participate, or even begin, such =20= >> a page on >> Worg, with the above info. >> >>> Maybe we could even make latex inherit the colours and fonts that =20= >>> emacs is >>> currently using for source code mark up? >> >> For sure, that'd be nice. You mean the way htmlize works, and keeps =20= >> my colors, >> right? >> >> Dunno what it implies for Org-LaTeX... Generating your own class =20 >> customization, >> and having it loaded by default (in the list of LaTeX packages)? > > Usage of listings is controlled by the variable > `org-export-latex-listings', so the simplest start would be: if that =20= > is > non-nil then code like yours could be inserted into the latex output. > >> >>> I was going to suggest doing this with listings but then came =20 >>> across minted, >>> and I wonder whether that's even more suitable? (See the other =20 >>> post I just >>> made.) >> >> Never heard about it before, while I'm trying to follow info about =20= >> TeX as >> well. >> >> I'm very impressed by the quality and reaction time of >> french.computers.text.tex. So, I decided to ask them what they =20 >> thought about >> Listings vs Minted. > > ,---- > | "sur un post de Dan Davison parlant d'un nouveau paquet qui > | serait mieux que Listings." > `---- > > Hey, I never said that! :) > > I said it might be better *for export of code from org-mode*. But > seriously, no problem, in addition to my character assassination, from > what I could make out they made lots of good points. Although I will > watch out now if I come across any francophones who look like they =20 > might > be tex enthusiasts (wouldn't one always...) > > What I meant is that seeing as org-users who set > `org-export-latex-listings' get black and white code with ugly fonts =20= > by > default, there are two improvement options for us: > > 1. we work on incorporating nice listings configuration into org =20 > mode so > that Org users get nice colours and fonts by default > 2. we add an option to allow Org users to use the minted package, =20 > which > gives them nice colours and fonts automatically. > > (2) was easy and so I did it straight away. And (1) is still something > we want to do, not least because listings is in standard latex > distributions and doesn't have an extra python requirement. Assuming > that minted/pygments are stable software that will be around for a > while, I would vote for both options ultimately being available in > org-mode. > >> >> See on = [[http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_umsgid%3D87lj8gp4rr.fsf%40mund= aneum.com=20 >> ][Email from S=E9bastien Vauban: Listings vs Minted]] >> >> What's interesting is that 2 brilliant people of that list =20 >> responded on that. >> I could try to translate the whole, but there already is a lot. Just >> highlighting that they don't trust that much all the facts that =20 >> have been used >> against Listings (and prove what they say): about Utf-8, or the =20 >> number of >> languages, etc. >> >> They agree with one inconvenient of Listings: the fact that, by =20 >> default, it >> uses bad settings (like no color, and proportional font). >> >> On the other hand, they don't like implying the use of an external =20= >> language to >> LaTeX. Impacts on shell-escape. >> >> The discussion is going on. I'll keep you posted. >> >> For sure, the objective of getting better out-of-the-box is a goal =20= >> we can >> reach. > > Excellent, I think that will be a good addition to org-mode. > > Dan > >> >> Best regards, >> Seb > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode