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From: "Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.com>
To: Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: public-emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ@plane.gmane.org,
	"emacs-orgmode list" <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
	"Sébastien Vauban"
	<public-wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@plane.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Re: How to get pretty printed source code in PDFLaTeX
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 06:38:24 -1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1DF1CFB0-2986-4A04-A4D2-AF2279F0A54E@tsdye.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87hbj31kup.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk>

Hi Dan,

One of the design goals of LaTeX is to use semantic markup in the  
source and to keep details of representation separate, typically in a  
style or class file that is used to render the semantic markup.  From  
this perspective, the cleanest implementation would be to create a  
LaTeX style or class file for use with org-mode, where the gory  
details of listings vs. minted, etc. could be worked out.  This would  
leave org-mode to do what it does very well, which is to identify and  
mark the relevant semantic units, and would at the same time simplify  
org-mode configuration.

For the user, this would require the org-mode.sty or org-mode.cls file  
be placed somewhere LaTeX could find it and creating an export target  
for it in .emacs.

This might not qualify as "out of the box" but the looser coupling  
between org-mode and LaTeX is likely to be a plus in the long run.

All the best,
Tom

On Aug 9, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Dan Davison wrote:

>
>
> Sébastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS 
> +FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org>
> writes:
>
>> Hi Dan,
>>
>> Dan Davison wrote:
>>> Sébastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw-XMD5yJDbdMSQIYZ4X/+iSw@public.gmane.orgrg 
>>> > writes:
>>>> Sebastian Rose wrote:
>>>>> Dan Davison <davison-+7o2aNKnwVPQzY9nttDBhA@public.gmane.org>  
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>> Can you point me to an example that shows how to make source  
>>>>>> code in
>>>>>> latex look (almost) as nice as html?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is supposed to work with the `listings' package. I havent  
>>>>> tried that
>>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>> If I understand you right, here's such an example you're after:
>>>>
>>>> * Much better code
>
> [...]
>
>>>> I've put the PDF (for easy access) onto my Web site:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mygooglest.com/sva/ECM-Listings.pdf
>>>
>>> Wow, that's really nice. Thanks for sharing that.
>>
>> I really thought that you used such a thing for a long time, having  
>> done so
>> much for Org-Babel. Maybe you were more interested by the execution  
>> stuff,
>> rather than its printing? For me, the opposite: I was much  
>> interested by the
>> printing, now by accessing all the power of Babel.
>
> You're probably right that I should have looked into it. But seeing as
> the HTML export of code is so nice and requred no configuration, I  
> never
> got round to it. Although I did write my Ph.D. in latex, and I am
> enjoying using the listings package for formatting pseudocode in a  
> paper
> which I'm supposed to be writing, I do need to become better friends
> with latex, it's true.
>
>>> I think we should aim to get to a point where org-mode can produce  
>>> such
>>> nicely formatted source code out-of-the-box.
>>
>> I share your point. I'm willing to participate, or even begin, such  
>> a page on
>> Worg, with the above info.
>>
>>> Maybe we could even make latex inherit the colours and fonts that  
>>> emacs is
>>> currently using for source code mark up?
>>
>> For sure, that'd be nice. You mean the way htmlize works, and keeps  
>> my colors,
>> right?
>>
>> Dunno what it implies for Org-LaTeX... Generating your own class  
>> customization,
>> and having it loaded by default (in the list of LaTeX packages)?
>
> Usage of listings is controlled by the variable
> `org-export-latex-listings', so the simplest start would be: if that  
> is
> non-nil then code like yours could be inserted into the latex output.
>
>>
>>> I was going to suggest doing this with listings but then came  
>>> across minted,
>>> and I wonder whether that's even more suitable? (See the other  
>>> post I just
>>> made.)
>>
>> Never heard about it before, while I'm trying to follow info about  
>> TeX as
>> well.
>>
>> I'm very impressed by the quality and reaction time of
>> french.computers.text.tex. So, I decided to ask them what they  
>> thought about
>> Listings vs Minted.
>
> ,----
> | "sur un post de Dan Davison parlant d'un nouveau paquet qui
> | serait mieux que Listings."
> `----
>
> Hey, I never said that! :)
>
> I said it might be better *for export of code from org-mode*. But
> seriously, no problem, in addition to my character assassination, from
> what I could make out they made lots of good points. Although I will
> watch out now if I come across any francophones who look like they  
> might
> be tex enthusiasts (wouldn't one always...)
>
> What I meant is that seeing as org-users who set
> `org-export-latex-listings' get black and white code with ugly fonts  
> by
> default, there are two improvement options for us:
>
> 1. we work on incorporating nice listings configuration into org  
> mode so
>   that Org users get nice colours and fonts by default
> 2. we add an option to allow Org users to use the minted package,  
> which
>   gives them nice colours and fonts automatically.
>
> (2) was easy and so I did it straight away. And (1) is still something
> we want to do, not least because listings is in standard latex
> distributions and doesn't have an extra python requirement. Assuming
> that minted/pygments are stable software that will be around for a
> while, I would vote for both options ultimately being available in
> org-mode.
>
>>
>> See on [[http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_umsgid%3D87lj8gp4rr.fsf%40mundaneum.com 
>> ][Email from Sébastien Vauban: Listings vs Minted]]
>>
>> What's interesting is that 2 brilliant people of that list  
>> responded on that.
>> I could try to translate the whole, but there already is a lot. Just
>> highlighting that they don't trust that much all the facts that  
>> have been used
>> against Listings (and prove what they say): about Utf-8, or the  
>> number of
>> languages, etc.
>>
>> They agree with one inconvenient of Listings: the fact that, by  
>> default, it
>> uses bad settings (like no color, and proportional font).
>>
>> On the other hand, they don't like implying the use of an external  
>> language to
>> LaTeX. Impacts on shell-escape.
>>
>> The discussion is going on. I'll keep you posted.
>>
>> For sure, the objective of getting better out-of-the-box is a goal  
>> we can
>> reach.
>
> Excellent, I think that will be a good addition to org-mode.
>
> Dan
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>  Seb
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
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> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

  reply	other threads:[~2010-08-10 16:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-04 17:00 Change resolution of LaTeX formulas in HTML output? amscopub-mail
2010-08-04 22:32 ` Bastien
2010-08-05 19:11   ` Dan Davison
2010-08-06  9:12     ` Bastien
2010-08-06 10:46   ` Carsten Dominik
2010-08-06 17:21     ` Bastien
2010-08-05 19:14 ` Dan Davison
2010-08-05 20:34   ` Sebastian Rose
2010-08-05 21:36     ` Dan Davison
2010-08-05 22:14       ` Sebastian Rose
2010-08-06  7:59         ` How to get pretty printed source code in PDFLaTeX Sébastien Vauban
2010-08-06 13:39           ` Dan Davison
2010-08-09 20:30             ` Sébastien Vauban
2010-08-09 22:29               ` Dan Davison
2010-08-10 16:38                 ` Thomas S. Dye [this message]
2010-08-10 17:37                   ` Dan Davison
2010-08-10 19:08                     ` Thomas S. Dye

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