From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: [RFC] Change some defcustoms into defcont Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 15:25:21 +0200 Message-ID: <1C2D6C38-9B58-4989-B9A1-46869D00AFC8@gmail.com> References: <871u3g5nwx.fsf@gmail.com> <87mwm33sv1.fsf@gmail.com> <87a9i2522c.fsf@gmail.com> <7839A647-8D17-47A9-A65D-5FD7110ED082@gmail.com> <874n8avenk.fsf@gmail.com> <87zjq1tyxy.fsf@gmail.com> <9ED40360-BFB2-4F8C-BADB-6F0A798C9742@gmail.com> <87vc0otlfy.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45819) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYyRV-00059p-RA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:25:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYyRP-0006Mv-Q6 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:25:45 -0400 Received: from mail-ee0-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:4013:c00::229]:40482) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VYyRP-0006Fj-Ev for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:25:39 -0400 Received: by mail-ee0-f41.google.com with SMTP id d49so400496eek.14 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 06:25:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87vc0otlfy.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Nicolas Goaziou Cc: Org Mode List Hi Nicolas, and everyone else. I have just investigated what actually happens is someone has a customize setting for a variable in his/her setup, and then the variable is changed to a defconst behind his/her back. The result was very surprising to me: customize-set-variables still does set the variable to the stored value. Changing a different customize variable and selecting "apply and change" updates the init file where customize-set-variables is stored, and interestingly still preserves the customize setting for the variable that now has become a defconst. This surprised me, and it seems to indicate that existing configurations would not break. Furthermore, I have looked at the old customization survey at http://orgmode.org/worg/org-configs/org-customization-survey.html It turns out that none of the variables Nicolas listed seems to have = been customized by the people participating in this survey. Tanking these together, I am now inclined to change my view and to let Nicolas make his proposed change. What I would like to request is that we try to make Org still work if = these variables do in fact have a different value - but that is what Nicolas already said. So: IF YOU HAVE CUSTOMIZED any of this variables, I'd like to hear = about it. Otherwise, I now think that the proposal is actually good and should = move ahead. - Carsten On Oct 23, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Nicolas Goaziou = wrote: > Hello, >=20 > Carsten Dominik writes: >=20 >> can you remind me what the bug was? The taskjuggler issue? >=20 > Correct. I will fix it today. >=20 >> Yes, as I said, I do see all these problems, but I also feel the = responsibility >> to break as few as possible existing configurations. >=20 > I understand. Though, almost any serious change breaks some existing > configuration. It is unfortunate, but I hope it will not prevent us = from > correcting past, and future, mistakes. Without that right to be wrong, > we'd better plan Org development a very long time ahead and cross > fingers hoping we will never fail. Don't cross too hard. >=20 >> If you want, I can take a shot at documenting this properly. >=20 > I'm not convinced by that documentation thing, i.e. "we allow you to > change the string, but we remind you that you shouldn't do it". It = even > goes against my initial suggestion, so I cannot say I "want" anything = in > that area. >=20 > Unless, that is, you're talking about a deprecation warning, e.g. "In > future releases, this variable will not be customizable anymore, so be > careful when changing its default value". But, IIUC, that's not what = you > want. >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > --=20 > Nicolas Goaziou