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* scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
@ 2009-02-20  9:17 Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-20 11:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-20  9:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Hello,

I often create tasks for myself using remember which automatically
puts an inactive time stamp on the headline of the item.  I then
subsequently "schedule" the job so that I end up with something like this:

*** [2009-02-18 Wed 17:55] TODO do something really interesting
    SCHEDULED: <2009-02-20 Fri>

In the agenda view, this appears as a task at 17.55 on the Friday
(i.e. today) but the active time stamp does not have a time on it.  I
would have expected this to be a straightforward "day" task.  It would
appear that the agenda view is taking the time from the inactive time
stamp and combining this with the active time stamp which has no time.

Is this the expected behaviour?  It's not what *I* would expect, but
that's not saying much ;-)

I'm using org 6.21b-1 from Debian "unstable" (the latest version in
Debian basically) and emacs 22.2.1.

Thanks,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga, UCL
BF >++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++[<]>-]>++.>++++.<-----.++++++.------.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20  9:17 scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-02-20 11:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
  2009-02-20 11:40   ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-20 11:56   ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Giovanni Ridolfi @ 2009-02-20 11:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode, Eric S Fraga

--- Ven 20/2/09, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> ha scritto:
> I often create tasks for myself using remember which
> automatically
> puts an inactive time stamp on the headline of the item.  I
> then
> subsequently "schedule" the job so that I end up
> with something like this:
> 
> *** [2009-02-18 Wed 17:55] TODO do something really
> interesting
>     SCHEDULED: <2009-02-20 Fri>
> 
> In the agenda view, this appears as a task at 17.55 on the
> Friday
> (i.e. today) but the active time stamp does not have a time
> on it.  I
> would have expected this to be a straightforward
> "day" task.

.... you could use a remember template with date 
without timestamp ;-)  using the variable:

 %t          time stamp, date only

Giovanni


      Passa a Yahoo! Mail.

La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, 
antispam e messenger integrato.
http://it.mail..yahoo.com/              

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 11:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
@ 2009-02-20 11:40   ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-20 11:56   ` Carsten Dominik
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-20 11:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: giovanni.ridolfi; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Giovanni Ridolfi writes:
> --- Ven 20/2/09, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> ha scritto:
> > I often create tasks for myself using remember which
> > automatically
> > puts an inactive time stamp on the headline of the item.  I
> > then
> > subsequently "schedule" the job so that I end up
> > with something like this:
> > 
> > *** [2009-02-18 Wed 17:55] TODO do something really
> > interesting
> >     SCHEDULED: <2009-02-20 Fri>
> > 
> > In the agenda view, this appears as a task at 17.55 on the
> > Friday
> > (i.e. today) but the active time stamp does not have a time
> > on it.  I
> > would have expected this to be a straightforward
> > "day" task.
> 
> .... you could use a remember template with date 
> without timestamp ;-)  using the variable:
> 
>  %t          time stamp, date only
> 
> Giovanni
> 
> 
>       Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
> 
> La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, 
> antispam e messenger integrato.
> http://it.mail..yahoo.com/              
> 

Thanks for the suggestion.  I guess this would solve the "problem" but
I actually find it quite useful to have the time stamp in my remember
generated notes/todos as it helps me keep track of when I initiated
things on busy days!  But the granularity provided by time probably is
too small so days alone are probably enough.

Thanks again,
eric

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 11:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
  2009-02-20 11:40   ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-02-20 11:56   ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-02-20 13:10     ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-02-20 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: giovanni.ridolfi; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric S Fraga


On Feb 20, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Giovanni Ridolfi wrote:

> --- Ven 20/2/09, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> ha scritto:
>> I often create tasks for myself using remember which
>> automatically
>> puts an inactive time stamp on the headline of the item.  I
>> then
>> subsequently "schedule" the job so that I end up
>> with something like this:
>>
>> *** [2009-02-18 Wed 17:55] TODO do something really
>> interesting
>>    SCHEDULED: <2009-02-20 Fri>
>>
>> In the agenda view, this appears as a task at 17.55 on the
>> Friday
>> (i.e. today) but the active time stamp does not have a time
>> on it.  I
>> would have expected this to be a straightforward
>> "day" task.
>
> .... you could use a remember template with date
> without timestamp ;-)  using the variable:
>
> %t          time stamp, date only

Either that, or use a template so that the time will
be put into the second line.  The way you have done it now,
the line will ne even be recognized as a TODO entry because
the word TODO is not the first in the headline.

Thus, a template
------------
* TODO %?
   %U
-----------

Should solve this for you.

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 11:56   ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-02-20 13:10     ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-20 13:38       ` Matthew Lundin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-20 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric S Fraga

Carsten Dominik writes:
> Either that, or use a template so that the time will
> be put into the second line.  The way you have done it now,
> the line will ne even be recognized as a TODO entry because
> the word TODO is not the first in the headline.

Duh!  I do feel rather silly now...

> Thus, a template
> ------------
> * TODO %?
>    %U
> -----------

I like having the date/time on the headline for sorting purposes.
Would something like

  * TODO $U %?

still work (or with %t instead of %U obviously)?

Thanks,
eric

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 13:10     ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-02-20 13:38       ` Matthew Lundin
  2009-02-20 14:08         ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Lundin @ 2009-02-20 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: e.fraga; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Eric,

Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>
writes:

> Would something like
>
>   * TODO $U %?
>
> still work (or with %t instead of %U obviously)?

I just tried this and it worked for me (i.e., showed up in the agenda).
But I'm sure there are finer points that I'm missing.

Best,
Matt

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 13:38       ` Matthew Lundin
@ 2009-02-20 14:08         ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-20 14:40           ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-20 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matthew Lundin; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Matthew Lundin writes:
> Hi Eric,
> 
> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>
> writes:
> 
> > Would something like
> >
> >   * TODO $U %?
> >
> > still work (or with %t instead of %U obviously)?
> 
> I just tried this and it worked for me (i.e., showed up in the agenda).
> But I'm sure there are finer points that I'm missing.
> 
> Best,
> Matt

And I have also tried it.  And that fixes the problem (which I hadn't
yet noticed) of an improperly formatted TODO entry.

However, my original question still stands: does it really make sense
for org-mode's agenda view to take the "time" for an activity that has
been scheduled for that day from an inactive time stamp when the
active one in the SCHEDULE entry has no time element?

I can use %u to not have the time in the inactive time stamp but
that's simply avoiding the issue... something I am happy to do if need
be but would rather like to avoid!  :-)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 14:08         ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-02-20 14:40           ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-02-20 14:44             ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-02-20 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: e.fraga; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


On Feb 20, 2009, at 3:08 PM, Eric S Fraga wrote:

> Matthew Lundin writes:
>> Hi Eric,
>>
>> Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>
>> writes:
>>
>>> Would something like
>>>
>>>  * TODO $U %?
>>>
>>> still work (or with %t instead of %U obviously)?
>>
>> I just tried this and it worked for me (i.e., showed up in the  
>> agenda).
>> But I'm sure there are finer points that I'm missing.
>>
>> Best,
>> Matt
>
> And I have also tried it.  And that fixes the problem (which I hadn't
> yet noticed) of an improperly formatted TODO entry.
>
> However, my original question still stands: does it really make sense
> for org-mode's agenda view to take the "time" for an activity that has
> been scheduled for that day from an inactive time stamp when the
> active one in the SCHEDULE entry has no time element?


The reason for this behavior is that I wanted to support things like

* TODO Meeting at 2pm
   <2009-01-01 Thu>

i.e. loose time information that may be in the header.

The regular expression looking for a time also matches the
time you had in the time stamp.

> I can use %u to not have the time in the inactive time stamp but
> that's simply avoiding the issue... something I am happy to do if need
> be but would rather like to avoid!  :-)

I think the right approach is to not put the time stamp into the
header line at all.  Why would you want the *creation* time in such
an exposed place????

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 14:40           ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-02-20 14:44             ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-24  2:29               ` Spike Spiegel
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-20 14:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Carsten Dominik writes:
> > However, my original question still stands: does it really make sense
> > for org-mode's agenda view to take the "time" for an activity that has
> > been scheduled for that day from an inactive time stamp when the
> > active one in the SCHEDULE entry has no time element?
> 
> The reason for this behavior is that I wanted to support things like
> 
> * TODO Meeting at 2pm
>    <2009-01-01 Thu>
> 
> i.e. loose time information that may be in the header.
> 
> The regular expression looking for a time also matches the
> time you had in the time stamp.

Ah, okay, that makes perfect sense.  Thanks!  I guess I don't think of
having the time and date separate ever but I can where others might
like that.

> I think the right approach is to not put the time stamp into the
> header line at all.  Why would you want the *creation* time in such
> an exposed place????

It's because I sometimes want to sort entries according to date/time
of creation as opposed to date/time of actual activity performed.  I
can work around this without difficulty, I think, so thanks all again
for all the input!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-20 14:44             ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-02-24  2:29               ` Spike Spiegel
  2009-02-24 11:37                 ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Spike Spiegel @ 2009-02-24  2:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: e.fraga; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi,

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> It's because I sometimes want to sort entries according to date/time
> of creation as opposed to date/time of actual activity performed.  I
> can work around this without difficulty, I think, so thanks all again
> for all the input!

Mind sharing how? because I had the some problem and so far have no
solution. I'm new to emacs and orgmode and learning elisp is taking me
some time, but ultimately I see no way of doing that without having a
property CREATED and then sorting functions able to account for it.

-- 
"Behind every great man there's a great backpack" - B.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-24  2:29               ` Spike Spiegel
@ 2009-02-24 11:37                 ` Eric S Fraga
  2009-02-24 18:00                   ` Samuel Wales
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-24 11:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Spike Spiegel; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Spike Spiegel writes:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> > It's because I sometimes want to sort entries according to date/time
> > of creation as opposed to date/time of actual activity performed.  I
> > can work around this without difficulty, I think, so thanks all again
> > for all the input!
> 
> Mind sharing how? because I had the some problem and so far have no
> solution. I'm new to emacs and orgmode and learning elisp is taking me
> some time, but ultimately I see no way of doing that without having a
> property CREATED and then sorting functions able to account for it.

I guess I worded my answer badly.  I am working around this by
including both time and date in an inactive time stamp (%U) but making
sure that, if I subsequently schedule the item, I specify a time
explicitly in the active time stamp.  This seems to override the time
in the inactive time stamp.  

Although not ideal for those tasks that need not be scheduled for a
specific time, it works.  When specifying a scheduled time really
doesn't make much sense, I simply put either 8:00, so that they appear
first in my day schedule, or 19:00 which makes them appear last,
giving me a simple priority view of the tasks.  For overdue tasks, the
time in either the active or inactive time stamps is ignored,
appearing simply as Sched. Nx.

So, my solution is to avoid the problem, being inherently lazy...

If anybody else has a better solution, please do let me know!

Hope this helps.

eric
-- 
MC .  -.. --- -  ..-. .-. .- --. .-  .- -  ..- -.-. .-..  .- -.-.  ..- -.-
NL Professor Eric S Fraga, Chemical Engineering, University College London
BF >++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++[<]>-]>++.>++++.<-----.++++++.------.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-24 11:37                 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2009-02-24 18:00                   ` Samuel Wales
  2009-02-25 12:51                     ` Carsten Dominik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2009-02-24 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: e.fraga; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Would it make sense at all to provide a user variable to turn off  the
agenda's scanning of headlines for times?  I wonder if that would
(slightly) speed it up also?

-- 
Myalgic encephalomyelitis denialism is causing death (decades early;
Jason et al. 2006) and severe suffering, pain, and disability (worse
than nearly all other serious diseases studied; Schweitzer et al.
1995) and grossly corrupting science.  *Anybody* can get the disease.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-24 18:00                   ` Samuel Wales
@ 2009-02-25 12:51                     ` Carsten Dominik
  2009-02-25 14:42                       ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2009-02-25 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, e.fraga


On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:

> Would it make sense at all to provide a user variable to turn off  the
> agenda's scanning of headlines for times?  I wonder if that would
> (slightly) speed it up also?

We have now such a variable, `org-agenda-search-headline-for time',
but no, it will not noticeably speed up the agenda creation.

- Carsten

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp
  2009-02-25 12:51                     ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2009-02-25 14:42                       ` Eric S Fraga
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2009-02-25 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, e.fraga

Carsten Dominik writes:
> On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:
> 
> > Would it make sense at all to provide a user variable to turn off  the
> > agenda's scanning of headlines for times?  I wonder if that would
> > (slightly) speed it up also?
> 
> We have now such a variable, `org-agenda-search-headline-for time',
> but no, it will not noticeably speed up the agenda creation.

Excellent.  Thanks Carsten!
-- 
MC .  -.. --- -  ..-. .-. .- --. .-  .- -  ..- -.-. .-..  .- -.-.  ..- -.-
NL Professor Eric S Fraga, Chemical Engineering, University College London
BF >++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++[<]>-]>++.>++++.<-----.++++++.------.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-02-25 14:42 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-02-20  9:17 scheduled item taking time from inactive time stamp Eric S Fraga
2009-02-20 11:36 ` Giovanni Ridolfi
2009-02-20 11:40   ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-02-20 11:56   ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-20 13:10     ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-02-20 13:38       ` Matthew Lundin
2009-02-20 14:08         ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-02-20 14:40           ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-20 14:44             ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-02-24  2:29               ` Spike Spiegel
2009-02-24 11:37                 ` Eric S Fraga
2009-02-24 18:00                   ` Samuel Wales
2009-02-25 12:51                     ` Carsten Dominik
2009-02-25 14:42                       ` Eric S Fraga

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